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Lazy Atheism?
RE: Lazy Atheism?
(June 16, 2024 at 1:07 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: I am talking about primitive humans.

Well, "primitive" is kind of a tricky word.

Ancient writers seem to have been more comfortable with various means of expression. Today a lot of people think that a good book is like good journalism or a science text -- each sentence has a single clear interpretation. Old-time people wrote that way sometimes (for example, if they wrote in 1750 BC to say that the copper they had received was of unacceptably low quality) but it depends on what they were writing about. 

Remember that in Jesus and Paul's time there was no such thing as the Bible. The books that became the Old Testament were still floating around independently. It made sense then (as it makes sense now) to think about the purpose of each one, and its intended audience, and apply the hermeneutic approach that's appropriate. 

Obviously when the Song of Solomon says "Your eyes are doves," this is not literal. So we know that at least some metaphor is considered acceptable. Which other sentences are non-literal is a case-by-case question. 

Plato's writings contain numerous myths, allegories, symbols, references to gods which may or may not be believed in, all that kind of stuff. For the kind of subject he was discussing, straightforward science-type language wasn't appropriate, and probably still isn't. Homer's epics were probably written as straightforward adventure stories, wildly exaggerated from real events, but by the first century they were being interpreted as containing hidden Neoplatonic messages. Porphyry wrote a fascinating interpretation of a minor scene in the Odyssey, about the cave where Odysseus stashes his stuff. Cicero wrote an interpretation of a dream that Scipio had, even though the contents of that dream are not taken to be a literal report of real events. Then Macrobius wrote a commentary on Cicero's interpretation. All of this was thought to have significant philosophical meaning, despite being based -- knowingly -- on fiction. 

Paul, and the author of John's Apocalypse, were Hellenized Jews converted to Christianity, who would have had some familiarity with the philosophical methods of the time.

The "primitive" guys were comfortable with all this. Non-literal texts were considered worth their attention. I don't see this as something that ends even though we are now so completely non-primitive.
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Messages In This Thread
Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 4, 2024 at 8:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 4, 2024 at 8:18 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 4, 2024 at 8:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 4, 2024 at 8:36 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 4, 2024 at 9:31 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jackalope - March 4, 2024 at 10:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jackalope - March 4, 2024 at 10:18 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 4, 2024 at 11:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 4, 2024 at 11:09 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 5, 2024 at 2:26 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - March 5, 2024 at 1:02 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 5, 2024 at 7:53 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 6, 2024 at 5:58 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - March 6, 2024 at 9:25 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 6, 2024 at 1:14 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 13, 2024 at 9:33 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 13, 2024 at 9:51 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 14, 2024 at 12:14 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 15, 2024 at 8:18 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 15, 2024 at 1:15 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 16, 2024 at 6:51 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 16, 2024 at 1:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 16, 2024 at 10:44 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - June 17, 2024 at 2:01 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 17, 2024 at 10:09 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 17, 2024 at 8:03 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 18, 2024 at 5:40 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - June 18, 2024 at 7:47 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 22, 2024 at 12:48 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 22, 2024 at 1:54 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 24, 2024 at 12:07 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 24, 2024 at 8:38 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by A. Secular Human - June 30, 2024 at 8:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ravenshire - June 17, 2024 at 2:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 5, 2024 at 2:28 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 5, 2024 at 9:02 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Spooky - March 5, 2024 at 10:53 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by no one - March 5, 2024 at 12:16 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 5, 2024 at 3:37 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 5, 2024 at 7:53 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 6, 2024 at 5:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 7:48 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - March 6, 2024 at 8:24 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 6, 2024 at 8:45 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 7:58 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 6, 2024 at 8:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 8:48 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 7, 2024 at 9:21 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Simon Moon - March 7, 2024 at 12:13 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 7, 2024 at 8:28 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - March 8, 2024 at 7:25 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Magic Pudding. - March 6, 2024 at 7:22 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2024 at 12:20 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 6, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 8:01 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 6, 2024 at 5:57 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 12:01 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 12:02 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 1:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 1:48 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fireball - March 8, 2024 at 8:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 12:32 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:35 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 8, 2024 at 6:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 9, 2024 at 9:53 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 8:08 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 1:39 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 10, 2024 at 8:12 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 8:25 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 10, 2024 at 8:57 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 10, 2024 at 9:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 10, 2024 at 10:51 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 10, 2024 at 11:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 10, 2024 at 11:34 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 10, 2024 at 12:11 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 10, 2024 at 9:24 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 8:02 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 12:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:30 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 12:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:52 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 1:09 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 1:55 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 1:56 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 2:43 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 2:56 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 3:17 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 6:58 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 7:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 8:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 8, 2024 at 9:43 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 9:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 8, 2024 at 10:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 8, 2024 at 11:20 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 8, 2024 at 11:13 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 12:38 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 9, 2024 at 5:19 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 9, 2024 at 8:31 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 9, 2024 at 9:38 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 5:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 9, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 7:29 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 9, 2024 at 8:53 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 10, 2024 at 9:19 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 9, 2024 at 7:32 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 7:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 8, 2024 at 11:08 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2024 at 9:07 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 8, 2024 at 11:18 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 9, 2024 at 12:09 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2024 at 9:02 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 9, 2024 at 9:26 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 9, 2024 at 8:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2024 at 9:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 10, 2024 at 1:42 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 1:49 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 10, 2024 at 3:56 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by no one - March 10, 2024 at 8:44 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 10, 2024 at 12:44 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 10, 2024 at 1:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 10, 2024 at 8:34 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 11, 2024 at 11:41 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 11, 2024 at 11:00 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 11, 2024 at 11:57 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ravenshire - March 11, 2024 at 11:59 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 11, 2024 at 12:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Paleophyte - March 17, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Elek_the_Chthonaut - March 26, 2024 at 11:29 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 27, 2024 at 5:26 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2024 at 11:05 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 11:23 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 6:00 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 27, 2024 at 8:13 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 27, 2024 at 8:56 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 27, 2024 at 9:15 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 28, 2024 at 12:45 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - March 27, 2024 at 10:23 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 11:29 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 27, 2024 at 2:39 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - March 28, 2024 at 1:23 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - March 28, 2024 at 8:34 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 28, 2024 at 9:32 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - March 27, 2024 at 9:36 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 27, 2024 at 11:31 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 11:44 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Prycejosh1987 - June 12, 2024 at 10:35 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 16, 2024 at 9:59 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 17, 2024 at 11:01 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 17, 2024 at 10:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2024 at 12:01 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 18, 2024 at 12:14 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 18, 2024 at 5:28 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 19, 2024 at 10:28 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 19, 2024 at 10:41 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2024 at 11:22 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 6:50 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 12:41 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 1:34 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 3:38 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 4:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 5:47 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 6:11 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 9:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - June 17, 2024 at 10:10 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - June 17, 2024 at 6:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 6:48 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - June 17, 2024 at 11:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2024 at 11:24 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - June 23, 2024 at 11:34 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2024 at 1:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Modern Atheism - July 16, 2024 at 3:36 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 16, 2024 at 7:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - July 16, 2024 at 8:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Modern Atheism - July 17, 2024 at 7:46 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 17, 2024 at 8:03 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Modern Atheism - July 17, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 17, 2024 at 8:15 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 9:29 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fireball - July 16, 2024 at 10:22 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Mr Greene - July 16, 2024 at 10:54 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - July 16, 2024 at 10:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fireball - July 16, 2024 at 10:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 12:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - July 17, 2024 at 12:42 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jackalope - July 18, 2024 at 12:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:30 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 17, 2024 at 8:19 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - July 18, 2024 at 7:33 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 10:17 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 18, 2024 at 6:51 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - July 18, 2024 at 7:52 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - July 18, 2024 at 9:53 am

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