"Laughing At Religion" Meme Thread

[Angrboda]

TheWhiteMarten

"We are killing you with the explicit goal of making the Soviet Union an atheist society."

"Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with atheism."

I think part of the issue here is that you and Sheldon are using different definitions of the word "atheism." 

Traditionally, atheism is the proposition that no gods exist. Using this proposition as a starting point, people may conclude further things. 

This is incorrect. Atheism, even in the philosophical sense, refers to a propositional attitude, not to the proposition itself. Thus:

In philosophy, however, and more specifically in the philosophy of religion, the term “atheism” is standardly used to refer to the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, to the proposition that there are no gods). Thus, to be an atheist on this definition, it does not suffice to suspend judgment on whether there is a God, even though that implies a lack of theistic belief. Instead, one must deny that God exists. This metaphysical sense of the word is preferred over other senses, including the psychological sense, not just by theistic philosophers, but by many (though not all) atheists in philosophy as well. For example, Robin Le Poidevin writes, “An atheist is one who denies the existence of a personal, transcendent creator of the universe, rather than one who simply lives his life without reference to such a being” (1996: xvii). J. L. Schellenberg says that “in philosophy, the atheist is not just someone who doesn’t accept theism, but more strongly someone who opposes it.” In other words, it is “the denial of theism, the claim that there is no God” (2019: 5).

This definition is also found in multiple encyclopedias and dictionaries of philosophy. For example, in the Concise Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, William L. Rowe (also an atheist) writes, “Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief” (2000: 62). The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy recognizes multiple senses of the word “atheism”, but is clear about which is standard in philosophy:

"[Atheism is] the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in god and is consistent with agnosticism [in the psychological sense]. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no god; this use has become standard. (Pojman 2015, emphasis added)"

Interestingly, the Encyclopedia of Philosophy recommends a slight broadening of the standard definition of “atheist”. It still requires rejection of belief in God as opposed to merely lacking that belief, but the basis for the rejection need not be that theism is false. For example, it might instead be that it is meaningless.

"According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God, that is, that the sentence “God exists” expresses a false proposition. In contrast, an agnostic [in the epistemological sense] maintains that it is not known or cannot be known whether there is a God, that is, whether the sentence “God exists” expresses a true proposition. On our definition, an atheist is a person who rejects belief in God, regardless of whether or not the reason for the rejection is the claim that “God exists” expresses a false proposition. People frequently adopt an attitude of rejection toward a position for reasons other than that it is a false proposition. It is common among contemporary philosophers, and indeed it was not uncommon in earlier centuries, to reject positions on the ground that they are meaningless. (Edwards 2006: 358)"

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy | Atheism

Do note that though the author sloppily conflates the proposition with the propositional attitude when he writes, "“atheism” is standardly defined in philosophy as the proposition that God does not exist," it's clear from the definitions that he quotes that it refers to the propositional attitude, not the proposition. The other definition refers to the identity of one who holds such a propositional attitude. Propositions themselves may be instrumental in forming the description of atheists and atheism, the proposition "god does not exist" is neither atheism nor atheist. It's not even atheistic, as a theist may deny the proposition, so the proposition itself has no necessary owner.

For example, if it's true that the Soviets held the belief that no gods exist, then it may well have been a crucial part of their decision-making concerning their ethical and political decisions. So for them, their atheism certainly was an important part of their political program.

States are not minds such that they can have propositional attitudes. The policies of a state may be more or less friendly toward specific religious attitudes and practices, and the ideologies which drive them may be similarly friendly or hostile towards specific religious behaviors, but the policies and ideologies remain those of the specific policies and ideologies. They may, depending upon one's perspective, be more atheistic or more theistic, but neither the state nor the ideologies become atheist or atheism as a consequence. And in this particular case, the ideology driving the state policies was one based upon an economic theory rather than a religious one. Thus the Soviet state enacted policies congruent with an ideology which was not atheism. Indeed, from a philosophical perspective, it is largely irrelevant to Marx and Communists whether or not any gods exist as the concern is not the metaphysical question but rather one of the political, psychological, and social power of religions and their tendency to work at cross-purposes with those of the Communist state and its ideal.

It's worth noting that Buddhism, while ostensibly compatible with Communism, was initially treated with tolerance by the Soviet state, but that tolerance quickly devolved into outright antagonism and hostility towards Buddhism and Buddhists (link). Likewise, Buddhism and Buddhists have not fared much better under other Communist regimes such as those in China and Cambodia. The proponent has to answer why, if these Communist states were basing their policies upon atheistic goals, the Buddhists were targeted as well?