RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 7, 2025 at 5:05 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2025 at 5:37 pm by Sheldon.)
(April 7, 2025 at 4:05 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote:Among creationists maybe, but certainly not among scientists. The term remains a metaphor used to describe the astonishingly narrow parameters of certain characteristics of the universe, and that if they altered even a vanishingly small amount, then the carbon life we know of, could not have emerged. So what? The universe is almost entirely hostile to life, you don't seem to be reading anything into that, could your bias be more obvious.Quote:Sheldon You have presented no evidence the ideas expressed are scientifically evidenced, and we already know they are not, as there is no such consensus among scientists with the necessary expertise in the related fields of scientific study. And of course, if this man remains an atheist, this rather contradicts your assumptions fine tuning evidences a deity. You see happy to ignore such flaws in your spiel.
There is a consensus the universe is fine-tuned for life.
Quote:The people making those observations are the people who, if anyone should know.
You have cited only one person, and even your example does not believe a deity exists, so that's a bit of comedy gold right there. And as I evidenced earlier, atheism rises sharply among scientists, and is almost universal among elite scientists, like The National Academy of Science, where 93% are atheists and agnostics. Are you saying they are not best placed to know if the scientific evidence indicates the universe was fine tuned by a creator deity? Seriously you ought to have the integrity to admit at least to yourself, when your arguments are so absurd they are comedic.
Quote:My spiel, as you call it, is the reason I and many people including scientists and non-religious people subscribe to the claim our universe was intentionally caused.
I know, but tit remains a subjective religious belief, unsupported by any objective, empirical or scientific evidence.
Quote:Atheism makes a counter claimNo it doesn't, that's a lie.
Atheism
noun
1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Quote: we live in a universe...amenable to scientific research and the laws of logicAnd none of that scientific evidence supports a creator deity, and you have repeatedly violated principles of logic in your arguments.
Quote:Explain why natural forces that didn't intend humans to exist would cause a universe with laws of physics that force stars to make the ingredients needed for planets and humans to exist?
I never made this claim, as you have been told, so it's not just a straw man fallacy now, it is pure mendacity to assign it to me. There is also no evidence natural phenomena have intent, but it is an objective fact they are causal.
Quote:There is no explanation...just happenstance.
Another straw man fallacy, the mendacity continues apace.
Quote:Even the most hard core atheist has to admit its at least very fortuitous that mechanistic forces serendipitously caused the conditions for life to occur.
That just looks like subjective bias to me, since I have no other universes to compare this one to, I can't say this one is "fortuitous". However heads coming up instead of tails in a coin toss can be perceived as fortuitous, this does not suggest intent or design behind the result.
Quote:Sheldon I now what the term means thanks, it is not broadly accepted among elite scientists in the necessary fields of study that the universe is "fine tuned", or that this phenomenon is evidence of a creator or a deity. Do you imagine this objection will go away if you simply keep repeating your original claims? That scientists use the term "fine tuned" to describe this phenomenon, does not mean it is fine tuned, let alone by a creator, or a deity. You seem to have lathered yourself up, but forgotten to turn on the shower. I accept that the carbon based organic life we observe, would be impossible if the parameters of certain characteristics of the physical universe were shifting an infinitesimally small amount, this does not represent scientific evidence it was fine tuned, even if that term has become a popular metaphor among scientists to describe that phenomenon.That last paragraph is pure gibberish?
Quote:I realize to atheists fine-tuning is just another observation they have to wish away.Another lie.
Quote:Suppose scientists made their measurements and observations and realized a whole slew of wide ranging possibilities would cause life to exist? You'd be screaming it from the rooftops.An irrelevant straw man, that does not in anyway address anything I said there, quelle surprise. You can sulk all you want, but there is no scientific evidence that the universe is literally fine tuned, it is a metaphor used to describe a particular phenomenon. You just seem desperate to leap on this metaphor, as creationists always do, and misrepresent science.
Quote:Exactly what you'd expect of forces that didn't intend our existence. You'd expect life to be something forces that didn't intend to cause life could do without trying. Yet knowing the ingredients for life but we still can't get it started.
It seems you are never going to honestly address what was actually posted, but are intent on rehashing the same mendacious straw men.