RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 8, 2025 at 12:23 pm
(This post was last modified: April 8, 2025 at 12:24 pm by Sheldon.)
Quote:"I can say I lack belief in the ability of mindless lifeless forces to unwittingly cause a universe with all the properties and conditions necessary to cause life to exist*? Then claim the burden of proof rests solely with atheists?"Atheism and materialism are not the same thing, again this argument starts with a fallacy, a false equivalence fallacy. I don't believe anything supernatural exists, or is possible, but this is not a claim that only the material or natural is possible. It carries no burden of proof. nor is this is some sort of semantic dodge or a trick, rather it is sound careful reasoning, that seeks to avoid making unevidenced, and unfalsifiable claims I would not myself accept as true.
There is another flaw in this argument, as has been explained numerous times. Since it is an objective fact that natural phenomena, and the material exist, but we have no objective evidence that demonstrates that the supernatural is even possible, ipso facto the former is prima facie more probable in any scenario, when discussing causation.
So whilst Drew is correct, in that he can of course say and claim anything he is minded to, no matter how irrational, since we each set our own threshold for credulity. Drew is just setting a lower bar than I am prepared to, because he wants to believe a deity exists, whereas I want, as far as is possible, to believe only things that are true, and so I set a threshold that will most reliably achieve this. Now of course I subject all claims and beliefs to the same standard, but Drew demonstrably does not, as one could replace the deity in his arguments with any unfalsifiable entity and beg the question by endowing it with sufficient (imagined) power to create a universe ex nihilo, as it were, using what it is ostensibly magic.