RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 10, 2025 at 4:52 am
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2025 at 5:55 am by Sheldon.)
Quote:Drew: Its questionable who is invoking magic.
Magic
noun
1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
There is nothing mysterious about natural phenomena, since they are ubiquitous in our understanding of reality, they are either understood or not, they are not mysterious, and they are the antithesis of supernatural.
You may want to get that bullet wound in your foot looked at.
Quote:Drew: Has science validated your claim we owe the existence to non-God explanations?
Please quote me anywhere claiming that "the universe came from non-god explanations", let alone that science had validated this?
Not believing a claim, and making a contrary claim are not the same thing.
Quote:Drew: What would be your explanation that if a universe comes into existence unintentionally by mindless natural forcesI neither have nor need one, since I have never claimed to know this. I have only expressed incredulity at your claims the universe required a deity creator, and supernatural forces, as they are unsupported by objective evidence, or rational argument.
Quote:Drew: I've had plenty claim erroneously that multiverse theory has nothing to do with the fine-tuning of the universe.No, you have had plenty of people object when you falsely claim multiverse hypothesis supports your claim that the universe was fine tuned by a deity using supernatural forces, which is not the same at all, as the entirely natural phenomena described by the scientific term "fine tuning", which is simply a metaphor, just as the big bang is a metaphor.
Quote:Drew: What's wrong with using sources to back up what I'm saying.
Nothing, except when you're misrepresenting their position, or making a fallacious appeal to authority, which you have done several times, and failed to understand, even after it has been pointed out. For example you claimed the universe is fine tuned, (not the scientific term, but the creationist belief), by a deity, when this was challenged you cited the multiverse hypothesis for support, when this was challenged, you produced a list of names, among which were elite scientists who are also prominent and outspoken atheists.
Lets make this as simple as I possibly can:
There is no scientific evidence for any deity, or anything supernatural, or that either is possible.
Quote:Drew: I meant that unlike atheists who deny there is any evidence our universe was intentionally caused I don't deny there is evidence to support belief in naturalism.
Clearly there is no scientific evidence the universe was intentionally caused, the rate of atheism among elite scientists is ample evidence to justify such an inference. However, there is also no objective evidence any deity exists or is possible, and you yourself have failed to offer any, or even any rational argument to support your claims. Parenthetically, the natural physical material universe, and entirely natural phenomena exist as an objective fact.
If a doctor prescribes antibiotics, and you pray over an infection, then when the infection clears up, which is the more plausible explanation, that the antibiotics behaved exactly as we know they will, or that an inexplicable and mysterious miracle (magic) occurred? We have overwhelming and conclusive objective evidence that the former is possible, and all we have for the second are argumentum ad ignorantiam, and post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies.
You are funny, fair play.
It is an objective fact that natural phenomena exist, ipso facto they are possible.
Now, objectively demonstrate that the supernatural exists, or is possible? Something, anything more than endless fallacious arguments.