RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 10, 2025 at 7:55 am
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2025 at 8:28 am by Sheldon.)
Quote:Drew: I'm a theist who believes the universe was intentionally caused for the purpose of creating intelligent beings such as humansWithout any objective evidence, and by supernatural causation, which again you cannot evidence is even possible. Leaving aside the dearth of objective evidence, the obvious logical inference is this is either one incompetent wasteful deity, determined to keep itself hidden from all objective scrutiny, or it is non-existent. As if that's not enough, humans evolved just 200k years ago, that some long winded planning that is.
Quote:Alan V Wrote: Wrote:Atheists usually say that what theists take as evidence is better explained as evidence supporting atheism.
Drew: I have yet to hear these explanations.
Oh I very much doubt that, given that dismissive hand waving, and evasion has been your persistent response to those explanations in this thread. It seems your mind is made up, and no amount of rational objections will change it.
Quote:Quote:My certainty comes from the grindingly, creakingly, crashingly obvious mountain of evidence that there is no place in a natural universe for a supernatural Overseer.
Boru
Drew: The only thing we have to go on at this time is what happened after the universe began to exist.
Correct, and every single thing we currently understand about the origins of the universe are entirely natural, and don't evidence any deity, creator, or anything supernatural. Which I suspect is precisely the point Boru was making.
Quote:Drew: And what happened was a shitload of things to cause a planet like earth to exist.
This is still hilariously daft, when things have already happened, the probability of that event is 1. Yet you keep trying to claim how improbable it seems. though of course this is only to add on a deity, and the supernatural, neither of which you can even evidence are even possible. Occam's razor violated.
Like a child marvelling at how intricately the puddle fits the water in it, it can only have been designed, obviously.
Quote:Drew: Isn't the whole basis of this debate is whether the universe and our existence was intentionally caused or the result of happenstance.
No, not at all, no one here knows, beyond the big bang, how the universe formed, but only you are claiming to, and your claim deviates from every known cause we have, in that it is not natural but supernatural, and you can demonstrate no objective evidence anything supernatural is possible, or that deity you insist must have caused it is possible. So the basis for this debate is to examine why you think this, and so far we have fallacious arguments, mendacious half truths misrepresenting science, and unevidenced assumptions.
Quote:Quote:In my experiences over several decades, I will say that if the Christian god or Jesus or whatever name you choose exist(s), they suck at that loving us part. It's an abusive relationship at best. I have been cutting abusers out of my life a long time and god/Jesus was the first one to go.
You had an abusive relationship with an imaginary being?
Oh dear.
Quote:Drew: How does an atheist use theology to make an argument against the existence of a Creator?
By pointing out the flaws in it, obviously, what a bizarre question?
Always worth re-reading the start of a thread I find, very edifying.