My opponent here clearly attempts to treat love and fear as opposites. They are not, they are extreme emotions yes, but the opposite of each would be indifference not each other. He also ignores the only accurate definition that is applicable to this conversation. Webster has 4 definitions for fear. Two are archaic: frighten and feel fear in oneself. One is: to be afraid of; expect with alarm. The one applicable to a discussion of God is: to have a reverential awe of (fear God is even the example used). I will not deny that the Bible has many verses that require fear, it does. Last note on definitions, what do you think the origins of terrific are? Is something terrific bad, even in the common vernacular?
He also makes the generalization that love is good and fear is bad, which is incorrect. Is fearing for your life bad? Is loving an abusive spouse a good thing? The act of fearing and loving cannot have a positive or negative result by themselves unless you factor in the object of the fear/love.
I agree that love and fear are both great motivators. I also agree that historically abject fear has been prevalently used by those who seek power effectively.
My opponent then introduces the concept of eternal suffering. That’s not what this debate is about and I believe is a red herring. Although I will agree that avoiding an eternal suffering would make a powerful motivator using abject fear. Then my opponent speaks of a fatherly God concept. Using his own example he would want respect or reverence from his son. Not from his punishments but from his innate authority as his father. I too am a father and I do want my kids to fear me; not trembling and scared, but reverential and respectful of my authority.
Then he correctly quotes 1 John 4:18. Taken in context, 1 John 4:7-21 is about the differences in God’s love and ours. See where the verse says fear has torment. Human fear does have torment. Let’s take God out of the conversation for a second and talk about human love. Loving someone else introduces vulnerability, which terrifies some people. This verse is teaching about how to love properly, by accepting that vulnerability and overcoming the abject terror and fear. But are they incompatible?
Did anyone here grow up with an abusive parent? It would be safe to assume that you lived in love and fear of that person. Has anyone ever lived with an emotionally or physically abusive spouse? The same 2 emotions would apply. What about a parent whose child is a murderer? Would you, no could you, stop loving that child despite your fear of what he could do to you/others? Who here is a thrill seeker, ride any rollercoasters that scared your recently?
“the rest of us with intelligence…” Do I even need to point out this fallacy? This debate isn’t about religious belief, people's intelligence, atheism, hell or Christianity. It’s simply about whether 2 extreme emotions are compatible in any way. I believe I’ve addressed all my opponent’s points and look forward to reading his and our conclusion of this fun debate.
He also makes the generalization that love is good and fear is bad, which is incorrect. Is fearing for your life bad? Is loving an abusive spouse a good thing? The act of fearing and loving cannot have a positive or negative result by themselves unless you factor in the object of the fear/love.
I agree that love and fear are both great motivators. I also agree that historically abject fear has been prevalently used by those who seek power effectively.
My opponent then introduces the concept of eternal suffering. That’s not what this debate is about and I believe is a red herring. Although I will agree that avoiding an eternal suffering would make a powerful motivator using abject fear. Then my opponent speaks of a fatherly God concept. Using his own example he would want respect or reverence from his son. Not from his punishments but from his innate authority as his father. I too am a father and I do want my kids to fear me; not trembling and scared, but reverential and respectful of my authority.
Then he correctly quotes 1 John 4:18. Taken in context, 1 John 4:7-21 is about the differences in God’s love and ours. See where the verse says fear has torment. Human fear does have torment. Let’s take God out of the conversation for a second and talk about human love. Loving someone else introduces vulnerability, which terrifies some people. This verse is teaching about how to love properly, by accepting that vulnerability and overcoming the abject terror and fear. But are they incompatible?
Did anyone here grow up with an abusive parent? It would be safe to assume that you lived in love and fear of that person. Has anyone ever lived with an emotionally or physically abusive spouse? The same 2 emotions would apply. What about a parent whose child is a murderer? Would you, no could you, stop loving that child despite your fear of what he could do to you/others? Who here is a thrill seeker, ride any rollercoasters that scared your recently?
“the rest of us with intelligence…” Do I even need to point out this fallacy? This debate isn’t about religious belief, people's intelligence, atheism, hell or Christianity. It’s simply about whether 2 extreme emotions are compatible in any way. I believe I’ve addressed all my opponent’s points and look forward to reading his and our conclusion of this fun debate.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
