(February 9, 2012 at 3:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Essentially, we would all have "innate rights" to whatever we all communally desire? An example being "right to life". Because we all desire to live it should be a universal and innate right? Well, what should be and what is are often different things. What is and what ought to be, you know the narrative.
Actually, my complete justification is much more complex than that. It is based on identification of man in his capacity as a moral agent. But here, I'd say that rather than simply saying that desire to live is the basis for the right, we should determine if "to live" is the prime directive of human nature. The difference would be that "desire to live" need not have any rational basis and need not be innate to human nature.
(February 9, 2012 at 3:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I agree with you btw, just trying to be honest about my own motivations for "rights" and my lack of solid justification beyond "because we say so/because we want them"..which, honestly, is perfectly okay (we justify things like that all the time), but doesn't hold up very well when arguing for something objective.
I know. Which is why it is important to find an objective basis for them. If it is accepted that rights are granted without any objective basis, then they can be taken away without any objective basis.
For example, suppose you accept that your rights are given simply by the consent of majority, then you accept that they can be taken away by the consent of majority and you'd have no rational grounds to defend them.
(February 9, 2012 at 3:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Is violence (even, dare I say it, senseless violence) not innate to human nature? Should we not have a right to violence, for example? I think you might mean that we should have a right to the things you have assigned a positive value-judgement too....
I'm not sure if violence is innate to human nature. Innate doesn't simply mean something that is found in human nature, but something that plays a role in defining it.
But, if violence is discovered to be innate to human nature, then we definitely should have the right to violence. As much as I would hate it, despise it and fight against it, I'd have no rational grounds to argue against it.
