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Understanding This "One Nation Under God" Thing
#1
Understanding This "One Nation Under God" Thing
Church and state separation is obviously a very controversial topic in America today. Some people want to put the Ten Commandments in public places, which sounds very totalitarian, considering what those ten instructions supposedly from God actually say. As an atheist, I am a huge advocate of separation of church and state. There are very few things worse than having someone shove religion down your throat. I think most rational Americans, religious and non-religious, would agree with that.

Two particular cases that get a lot of public attention today are the terms "One nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, and "in God we trust" on coins. Well, correct me if you think I am wrong, but I think I have finally figured this separation of church and state issue out.

This came to me when reading a book about the U.S. Supreme Court Case, Engel Vs. Vitale, in which the U.S. Supreme Court ruled New York's official public school prayer unconstitutional. The Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Read that quote and pay very close attention. Notice that it does not say "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. The word "an" indicates a particular religion, while "the" indicates religion as a broad, unspecified concept. Apparently religion has been in America since its founding back in the eighteenth century, and some of the founding fathers were in fact religious. Madison, Jefferson, Paine, and the others did not intend to wipe out religion from public life; rather, they wished to keep one particular religion (Christianity, Buddhism, Mormonism, etc.) from controlling people. Basically, the Establishment Clause guarantees your right to adhere to any religion you wish, and the government can neither endorse your particular religion or prohibit you from exercising it.

Another important issue you must understand is the very broad definition of "God" contained in the Pledge of Allegiance and inscribed on coins. "God" does not necessarily refer to an old man in the clouds with grey hair and a long beard, as he is portrayed in pop culture, nor is he/she/it/they necessarily a part of objective reality. God can mean almost anything. Einstein understood God to be universal truth. God was an intangible representation of the Universe's many laws (gravity, evolution, etc.), and it was our jobs as humans to seek out and understand how exactly this God worked. The Christian Dominionists such as Pat Robertson and Bryan Fischer, on the other hand, understand God to be a supreme being peering at humanity through peep holes in the sky, and ordering them to build heaven's government. Einstein's and the Christian Dominionist Church's view of God are entirely different.

So that is basically it. If you object to the terms "one nation under God" or "In God we trust", then you really do not have much of a case in court. If they said "one nation under the Christian God" or anything that endorses a particular religious sect, then you would have a point.

And that is basically my understanding of the issue, as of the present research I have completed.
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#2
RE: Understanding This "One Nation Under God" Thing
Quote:Church and state separation is obviously a very controversial topic in America today.

Only because religious fuckwits cannot understand what the foundation of the country was.
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#3
RE: Understanding This "One Nation Under God" Thing
(July 29, 2013 at 12:39 am)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Church and state separation is obviously a very controversial topic in America today.

Only because religious fuckwits cannot understand what the foundation of the country was.

Well said.
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#4
RE: Understanding This "One Nation Under God" Thing
I don't think arguing the semantics between "an" or "the" really matter that much. It has long been understood that the Establishment Clause states that the government cannot officially endorse or establish any religion at all.

However, in practice that has not always worked out because we see references to God everywhere in our government, even to the point where each session of Congress is opened with a prayer, and not too long ago when they had a (I believe) Sikh give the opening prayer, a bunch of Christians had to be kicked out because they were screaming about what an abomination it was. But I don't think it would be too hard to argue that "In God We Trust" is a religious motto, since it is referencing God. I know a lot of defenders will claim that "It doesn't say which god," but you, I, and they know which god the motto is talking about. But speaking as an atheist, it doesn't matter even if it's not clear as to which god it's making reference to, officially invoking belief in a god is de facto establishment of religion.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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#5
RE: Understanding This "One Nation Under God" Thing
Yep. In a country of 78-80% of some type of Christian (and that's not even considering it's greater prevalence in the past), "Under God" just refers to a nebulous, unspecified deity.

Uh-huh, sounds.... legit SCOTUS.
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