Morality, Justice, Greatness - do these things prove God?

[Mystic]

The very reason I don't buy into those arguments is precisely because I personally view morality as being entirely subjective.

I mean, sure a lot of humans are going to agree on a lot of things. Don't poke me in the eye it hurts. Well duh? Poking people in the eyes is probably going to agreed upon as being an immortal action.

But if morality is all subjective, you can't really say a person has a wrong view or right view. You couldn't criticize another persons moral judgment.

Also just because we all agree on something doesn't mean it is correct if it is subjective.

It seems we can't say anything is right or wrong, and if it's all subjective, we shouldn't really try to have any moral view, because it can't be said to be correct.

There is basically no morality if this is true. But this is not something I personally can believe, I understand there is moral nihilist, but I can't deny something to me that is manifest.

So it should be blatantly obviously from this that morality could never hope to be purely objective.

I don't think differences in opinion show there can't be a moral objectivity. Right now, perhaps most people will be corrupted and twisted from the true objective morality, but it doesn't mean no human can achieve views that are all in line with objective morality.

It maybe extremely difficult, but I don't see how you can conclude it's impossible, just because people differ on the issue.

That would only follow if you went into contemplation convinced that morality has to be objective.

Sure, or if there is a such thing as morality. To me, subjective morality is but a delusion, it's not really morality, as we originally understood the word.

But there's a huge folly in this kind of thinking. What if after your contemplation you came up with your ideal Perfect Morality, and then you discovered that your deity didn't agree with YOU?

I would have to change my view, because the diety would be what is the true objective morality, while my view would have been twisted and corrupted due to various reasons.

Here you are judging whether a diety is worthy of Worship based on whether or not you personally consider that deity to have Perfect Moral Standards. What if you disagreed?

No, I know it has perfect moral standards, but I don't know necessarily what all those standards are. However, perhaps with enough soul searching and reflection with pure intention, you can realize all the perfect moral standards.

The way I see it, we are somehow linked and connected to this reality, and that reality is related with our own existence.

Our minds due to various factors can have a wrong view of morality, but, there will be something in the soul, with deep reflection, that can bring us back to the correct view.

This is why we feel we can change people's minds about wrong things.

Take for example, killing apostates in Islam. This feeling felt wrong with me even while I was Muslim which is why I never believed it.

Many other Muslims, due to hadiths and their scholars, will believe apostates are to be killed.

However, I argue, deep down inside, their is something telling them it is wrong, but they are suppressing it.

So to me, just because people differ, it doesn't prove that these objective morality doesn't exist or we have no access to it.

At any rate, to me it seems such a reality must exist, for morality at all to be true, otherwise it's nothing but a delusion.

At least to me, it seems by the nature of morality, greatness, and justice, is that they are eternal, and it's not even matter about coming out due to chance or not, this is not my argument.

It seems to me, that the proposition that the Creator once didn't have morality, and then invented morality, is impossible. This would make morality arbitrary. Rather it be must eternal nature, but the nature of morality is in person hood. The same is true of greatness and justice. Neither of these things can be simply invented even by the Creator. Their nature shows they are eternal.

But what is this eternal reality but God?

Therefore I do believe the nature of greatness, morality, and justice, prove the existence of God.

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Define morality, Justice, and greatness in a capacity which can be physically measured then I will get back with your answer.

Obviously these things are not like physical objects, but they can be measured through our own consciousness.

What is "objective" morality...as opposed to "subjective?"

I don't feel like getting into a war of semantics/

An absolute reality for notions?

Morality, justice, and greatness, aren't just notions.