Banning the Burqa?

[Tiberius]

I did not compare wearing a burqa to beating your wife, which I'm not saying you do (or don't do, I don't know you). I was listing stupid things people do. Two things are not necessarily being compared simply because they are in the same post.

I'm aware of that, yet you were using them to support your main argument, which you were including the burqa in:

I don't see how some number of people making what I consider a poor choice makes my argument fail. Could you clarify how it does?

In your view, smoking crack is a poor choice, as is wearing a burqa, correct? If not, what was the point of mentioning them in a post about burqas?

You seem to place some non-negligible value on acts because they customs. You are aware that customs are just things people do, right? That means you are giving value to things simply because people do them. That is ridiculous.

Yes, I'm aware what customs are just things people do. I don't give value to things simply because people do them, I simply hold that there is no reason to take value away from things (like customs) if they are not violating the rights of others, or impeding justice. A person demanding that they can only show their face to women police officers does not impede justice unless there are no women police officers about. A person has a right to their own customs; the police (or anyone for that matter) do not have a right to interfere with those customs if they can help it. That is not ridiculous; that is simply the only fair thing to do in a society filled with people from different backgrounds who have different customs.

Unless you retract your main statement about customs having some inherent value due to being customs, it doesn't matter what else you follow it with. That view is illogical.

I'm not going to retract something I never stated, it would be pointless.

"Quote mine?" I posted literally everything you wrote on the subject in this thread. What the fuck did I mine?

You took the context out of my quote in order to strawman my position. I said:

Yes, when needed then of course face coverings should be removed, but customs and religions should be respected.

You then went on to characterize my argument as:

customs and religions should be respected.

That, my friend, is a quote mine and a strawman. I never said "customs and religions should be respected." as a general argument about all customs and religions. I said it quite clearly about face coverings.

Regardless, there is absolutely no context in which your statement is not moronic.

Yet you yourself have said that some customs should be respected if they are logical and reasonable, so clearly there is a context in which "my" statement is not moronic, unless you hold that your own position is also moronic?

It doesn't matter if you have more arguments that are tangentially related if your basic premise is full of shit. Customs don't have value purely due to being customs.

I never said they did have inherent value. I'm still not sure where value even came into this; it certainly isn't a basic premise of my argument.

You have abandoned reason and give them value for no reason at all.

No I haven't.

Apparently that Wiki link won't help, since it appears your problem is a failure to agree with reality instead of ignorance of the definition of straw man.

In what way do I "disagree with reality"? I believe it is you who is ignorant of what a strawman is; that or you don't understand how you cannot simply take something out of context and apply it as if I'd argued it that way. I repeat, at no point in this discussion did I make the claim "customs and religions should be respected" on its own.

As for you not actually arguing that point, that's irrelevant. It's a viewpoint that you stated that you have and which colors your perception of this issue.

Except I didn't state that viewpoint, which is what I've been trying to get across to you for a while now. Go and read my posts again. I never stated "customs and religions should be respected" on its own.

Your faulty reasoning is undermining the rest of your argument, since you aren't evaluating the variables in a logical, rational way.

You haven't even pointed out any faulty reasoning yet. You've strawmanned my argument using a quote mine, and are again strawmanning me by claiming I am putting value on customs when I haven't even mentioned values at all.

There is no context for that quote to be taken out of, and it's bullshit to claim that there is.

Do you not understand there is a difference in context between:

Yes, when needed then of course face coverings should be removed, but customs and religions should be respected.

and

customs and religions should be respected.

If you don't understand the change of context from something very specific (i.e. pertaining only to face coverings) to something very generic (pertaining to everything), then you need to study the English language more.

You stated that customs and religion deserve respect.

Again, no I didn't.

Bullshit. Your words didn't say this and there was nothing to imply that you were only talking about the one very narrow instance. Regardless, even if you were (which I don't buy), it doesn't make your statement any less moronic. You are still valuing customs without reason.

My words did say this. I've quoted myself multiple times now. I am not valuing customs without reason; I have spent this entire thread going on about the reasons why I think burqa wearing should be a respected custom. It (generally) does not harm anyone, and it is none of my business what other people wear. Those are just two of my many arguments for it. If you want to debate them, feel free to do so.

I'd link you to a Wiki article on critical thinking, but it would work about as well as it does with creationists.

I studied critical thinking at school. You clearly didn't pay attention. You have been called out on your logical fallacies by people other than myself. They are as plain as daylight to see, though apparently not by you.

It's not my fault if you say illogical things and fail to understand why they're illogical. Always strive to improve, though. I have the highest hopes for you.

I never said they weren't illogical; I said I didn't say them. You are quote mining and strawmanning my argument.

Unfortunately that statement is completely at odds with your original statement. Which is wrong? Are customs worthy of respect without needing a reason as you previously claimed, or do they need a reason to be respected? Your claims are contradictory.

I never claimed they didn't need a reason to be respected. My "original statement" is a quote mine by you. Nothing I've said so far contradicts itself.