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[elunico13]

So what if we can't explain why the laws of logic are universal? Doesn't mean we can't use them to make sense of the world! Do you stop using anything because you can't explain where it comes from and why it works? No.

Then there's the whole problem of "you can't explain this therefore god". Prove to everyone that the biblical god is necessary for logic to exist. I dare you.

Please try and use just a modicum of rational thought next time.

Let me kindly remind you I have given the rational reason for laws of logic to be universal in this thread. It is those who have tried to explain it without the biblical God who have no rational justification for them. Any worldview without the biblical God is reduced to absurdity. When you say you don't need to explain their universal nature is begging the question of why are they universal? If not universal then we all can have our own laws of logic and they wouldn't be laws anymore. No reason for debate at that point.

I'm not saying that you stop or can't use laws of logic, you have also been made in the image of God and your are not a descendant of a monkey, you have been given a mind with access to these laws. It is quite clear though how the rejection of the biblical God can make your assumptions pretty arbitrary.

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We discover the laws of logic by thinking about all the observations we have made - the same way we discover laws of physics. You gave a good example of how we do it. We observe that nothing we have ever observed is itself and not itself at the same time. Given that it fits everything that is known irrespective of physical category, we consider it a law of logic.

So is it safe to say you have changed your mind about humans creating laws of logic like you mentioned before? We are discovering them and have access to them with our minds.

Laws of logic were not created and had to have existed before the creation of the universe. Logic is the very nature of God. Without logic before the universe then there would be no logical reason for the universe to exist in the first place.

Do you still believe laws of logic didn't exist before the universe? If so, why?

(your still confusing laws of physics with laws of logic. Logic doesn't come from the behavior of matter. When we study matter then laws of physics are discovered)

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Yep, the laws of logic come from God, wich explains.... nothing!

Can you give a rational justification for the laws of logic being universal, immaterial and invariant without the biblical God?

Try not to give the same refuted answers the other atheists gave on this thread. They're actually starting to give up. I think you can do better though!