Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 18, 2025, 7:00 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Origin of Articles
RE: Origin of Articles



Actually, I'll furnish this move for him/her. Yes, the presuppositionist can assert these things and remain consistent. The reason s/he can is what's known as epistemological holism (aka underdetermination of theory, or the Duhem-Quine thesis).

In a nutshell, epistemological holism is the quality of theories that, in addition to the top level hypothesis, are supported by a raft of auxiliary assumptions and hypotheses, all the way from auxiliary components from the theory of measurement, to theories of falsification, to theories of logic and mathematics and metaphysical postulates (e.g. the many worlds hypothesis). If we have a fact or observation which is not what was predicted by our hypothesis, the hypothesis itself may be the faulty component in the system, or the fault could be in an auxiliary component of the theory, totally unrelated to the question we framed with our hypothesis. So logically speaking, since any theory, including his/her presuppositionalism, is composed of manyfold unarticulated parts, any failure of the top level theory can be accommodated by adjusting an auxiliary part, many of which may be unknown until they are changed explicitly to handle an exception. In this way, a bad theory or an unscrupulous person can make any theory be effectively unfalsifiable, and essentially meaningless. Like this perpetual round of ad hoc justifications and bare assertions; a talented person could keep this game going indefinitely. But in the end, that's all it is: just a game.

Wikipedia Wrote:For example, in the first half of the 19th century, astronomers were observing the path of the planet Uranus to see if it conformed to the path predicted by Newton's law of gravitation; it didn't. There were an indeterminate number of possible explanations, such as that the telescopic observations were wrong because of some unknown factor; or that Newton's laws were in error; or that God moves different planets in different ways. However, it was eventually accepted that an unknown planet was affecting the path of Uranus, and that the hypothesis that there are seven planets in our solar system was false. Le Verrier calculated the approximate position of the interfering planet and its existence was confirmed in 1846. We now call the planet Neptune.

There are two aspects of confirmation holism. The first is that interpretation of observation is dependent on theory (sometimes called theory-laden). Before accepting the telescopic observations one must look into the optics of the telescope, the way the mount is constructed in order to ensure that the telescope is pointing in the right direction, and that light travels through space in a straight line (which Einstein demonstrated is not generally true, but is often an adequate approximation). The second is that evidence alone is insufficient to determine which theory is correct. Each of the alternatives above might have been correct, but only one was in the end accepted.

That theories can only be tested as they relate to other theories implies that one can always claim that test results that seem to refute a favoured scientific theory have not refuted that theory at all. Rather, one can claim that the test results conflict with predictions because some other theory is false or unrecognised (this is Einstein's basic objection when it comes to the uncertainty principle). Maybe the test equipment was out of alignment because the cleaning lady bumped into it the previous night. Or, maybe, there is dark matter in the universe that accounts for the strange motions of some galaxies.

That one cannot unambiguously determine which theory is refuted by unexpected data means that scientists must use judgements about which theories to accept and which to reject. Logic alone does not guide such decisions.

And that last sentence suggests that the reasonableness of interpretation of the evidence is dependent on the reasonableness of the interpreter. Since we know that a presuppositionalist is beholden to two masters, reason and her religious beliefs, it's questionable that such a person can be trusted to interpret the evidence. Not my main concern but it points up a side of science which many people deny, that science depends as much on the skill and values of the scientists themselves, as it does on the method. (And I would contend that the method and scientific presuppositions (assuming that there are any that aren't shared with the presuppositionalist) is only a small part of what makes science. Some may see this as playing into the presuppositionalist's hands, but I am not concerned with a political goal or justifying an end result here, so that cannot be my guiding principle.)


[Image: eh1.JPG]


(I'm not certain of this latter point, but since the boundaries of what a hypothesis is dependent upon are never explicit, it would seem reasonable to suppose that one might restore coherence by introducing additional assumptions that weren't included before, solely to bear the burden of taking the logical hit, or, reframing the question so that the prior observation or evidence is no longer applicable, as that may obsolete the failed observation, or provide justification for shifting the blame for the observational failure; note that in this case, a clever presuppositionalist will always explain the failure as occurring in that part of the system that lies outside her presuppositionalist theories, aka science, thus avoiding all fault to his system. This is the so-called ad hoc explanation.)


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 1, 2012 at 3:23 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 1, 2012 at 3:39 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Jackalope - June 1, 2012 at 3:40 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 1, 2012 at 3:43 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 1, 2012 at 3:45 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 1, 2012 at 8:29 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 2, 2012 at 10:06 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 3, 2012 at 12:14 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Annik - June 1, 2012 at 3:45 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 1, 2012 at 3:49 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by padraic - June 1, 2012 at 8:30 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 1, 2012 at 8:43 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by libalchris - June 2, 2012 at 1:10 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 2, 2012 at 10:47 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 2, 2012 at 11:11 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 2, 2012 at 12:08 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 2, 2012 at 12:14 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 4, 2012 at 9:03 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 4, 2012 at 3:12 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 4, 2012 at 5:38 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 4, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by libalchris - June 2, 2012 at 4:52 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 2, 2012 at 6:15 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 1, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Origin of Articles - by Zen Badger - June 1, 2012 at 8:52 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 1, 2012 at 8:54 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 2, 2012 at 1:54 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by padraic - June 1, 2012 at 9:12 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 2, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - June 2, 2012 at 2:34 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Erinome - June 2, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 2, 2012 at 2:21 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tempus - June 2, 2012 at 6:27 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Annik - June 2, 2012 at 7:32 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tempus - June 2, 2012 at 8:21 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 2, 2012 at 12:15 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by downbeatplumb - June 2, 2012 at 2:15 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Panglossian - June 2, 2012 at 4:36 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Reforged - June 2, 2012 at 4:39 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 2, 2012 at 6:13 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 4, 2012 at 9:33 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 4, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 5, 2012 at 12:04 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 6, 2012 at 11:14 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by LastPoet - June 6, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 6, 2012 at 11:41 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 7, 2012 at 11:14 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 7, 2012 at 11:48 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 7, 2012 at 11:58 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 7, 2012 at 11:27 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by libalchris - June 7, 2012 at 11:41 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 7, 2012 at 11:45 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by libalchris - June 7, 2012 at 11:57 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 8, 2012 at 1:04 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by libalchris - June 8, 2012 at 1:23 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - June 8, 2012 at 5:48 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 12, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 8, 2012 at 8:24 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 12, 2012 at 12:27 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 6, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 6, 2012 at 11:49 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 7, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 7, 2012 at 12:01 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 7, 2012 at 12:11 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 7, 2012 at 12:21 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 7, 2012 at 12:22 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Jackalope - June 8, 2012 at 1:19 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 8, 2012 at 5:42 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 8, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 9, 2012 at 10:28 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 9, 2012 at 10:39 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 9, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 9, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2012 at 11:53 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2012 at 10:56 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 9, 2012 at 11:29 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 8, 2012 at 8:49 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 8, 2012 at 9:15 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 8, 2012 at 9:19 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by libalchris - June 8, 2012 at 7:04 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 9, 2012 at 11:44 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2012 at 12:02 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2012 at 6:27 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 9, 2012 at 6:36 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2012 at 6:40 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 9, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 10, 2012 at 10:12 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 10, 2012 at 10:32 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 10, 2012 at 10:45 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 10, 2012 at 10:57 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 12, 2012 at 11:25 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 12, 2012 at 12:05 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 14, 2012 at 10:25 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 14, 2012 at 11:40 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 15, 2012 at 11:28 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 15, 2012 at 2:32 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 18, 2012 at 10:03 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by LastPoet - June 18, 2012 at 10:09 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 18, 2012 at 11:14 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by LastPoet - June 18, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 18, 2012 at 11:51 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 18, 2012 at 12:01 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 21, 2012 at 10:41 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 22, 2012 at 10:07 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 24, 2012 at 7:50 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 24, 2012 at 9:13 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 24, 2012 at 9:15 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Zen Badger - June 26, 2012 at 7:16 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 27, 2012 at 12:45 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 27, 2012 at 8:48 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 27, 2012 at 11:16 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 18, 2012 at 11:28 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 21, 2012 at 10:30 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 21, 2012 at 11:02 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 18, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 18, 2012 at 2:09 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 19, 2012 at 3:20 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 19, 2012 at 5:18 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 19, 2012 at 5:27 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 21, 2012 at 9:40 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 19, 2012 at 6:09 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 19, 2012 at 8:06 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 16, 2012 at 7:12 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - July 3, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 10, 2012 at 12:06 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2012 at 11:58 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 10, 2012 at 9:48 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 12, 2012 at 1:55 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 14, 2012 at 11:24 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 14, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 14, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 10, 2012 at 12:13 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Tobie - June 10, 2012 at 10:06 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 10:09 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 10:59 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 12, 2012 at 12:27 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by genkaus - June 12, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 14, 2012 at 10:30 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 14, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by frankiej - June 14, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 14, 2012 at 11:49 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 14, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 14, 2012 at 11:28 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 14, 2012 at 8:05 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 14, 2012 at 9:08 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 15, 2012 at 12:14 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 15, 2012 at 1:30 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 15, 2012 at 5:25 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 18, 2012 at 12:05 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 19, 2012 at 6:07 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 21, 2012 at 5:22 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Cyberman - June 21, 2012 at 7:45 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 21, 2012 at 10:26 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 21, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Jackalope - June 21, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 22, 2012 at 12:22 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 24, 2012 at 7:11 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 24, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 24, 2012 at 8:03 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 25, 2012 at 1:01 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 24, 2012 at 10:16 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 26, 2012 at 11:09 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Faith No More - June 22, 2012 at 12:59 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 22, 2012 at 6:34 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 22, 2012 at 1:25 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Mister Agenda - June 22, 2012 at 1:43 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 22, 2012 at 2:29 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by YahwehIsTheWay - June 22, 2012 at 2:44 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by downbeatplumb - June 22, 2012 at 2:53 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by elunico13 - June 24, 2012 at 7:57 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 24, 2012 at 9:19 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 22, 2012 at 2:57 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 24, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 24, 2012 at 7:59 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 24, 2012 at 8:21 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 25, 2012 at 1:39 am
circular reasoning - by elunico13 - June 26, 2012 at 2:54 pm
RE: circular reasoning - by DeistPaladin - June 26, 2012 at 3:21 pm
RE: circular reasoning - by elunico13 - June 26, 2012 at 6:36 pm
RE: circular reasoning - by DeistPaladin - June 26, 2012 at 7:59 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 26, 2012 at 5:35 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 26, 2012 at 11:50 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 27, 2012 at 8:52 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 27, 2012 at 9:16 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by Angrboda - June 27, 2012 at 4:49 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: Origin of Articles - by FallentoReason - June 27, 2012 at 1:02 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - June 27, 2012 at 1:21 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by Epimethean - June 27, 2012 at 5:13 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2012 at 5:52 pm
RE: Origin of Articles - by DeistPaladin - July 4, 2012 at 11:30 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Smile Origin of Language JMT 42 10987 February 23, 2018 at 5:39 am
Last Post: Cyberman
  Origin of evil Harris 186 34715 September 12, 2016 at 5:37 am
Last Post: Harris



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)