The Stage is Yours.

[fr0d0]

My belief in God is partly an extension of what I have seen, observed, and/or learned so far in my life (i.e. the empirical stuff) - and I don't think that there is anything wrong with having such a basis behind my faith - and I find that Islam is the closest religion that makes sense to me. You see the religion in a different way, however. And yeah, I probably know what flaws of Islam that you have in mind because I remember them from past discussions. But feel free to reiterate them if you want to. The choice is yours.

I can't say that I don't think there's anything wrong with mixing empiricism with metaphysics, as the way I understand it there can be no connection: hence the car crashes. What I need to persue is why you don't have that car crash. But justification from you is up to you.

I don't need to reitterate my points for disagreement with Islam as a whole, as I don't think it's helpful. Suffice to say to Raphael: I logically deduce my own position and find it to be the only one that satisfies my enquiries; and those enquiries are constnatly ongoing.

1. How does meaning and purpose all lead back to Christianity, though?

It leads back to the Christian description of God. It's how and why Christianity came about - to describe meaning and purpose, as it is the reason for most religious endeavour. I believe that the Christian model answers that perfectly, where other endeavours do not. Straight away (I think) you and I would dismiss those endeavours that have god as a destructive force. So it goes on and we find what makes sense for us. I don't know what you've concluded on that, or if you've ever considered it. It doesn't predicate belief so there's no reason why you should IMO.

2. I think that "meaning" and "purpose" fall somewhere in the general philosophy area as they are not exactly "metaphysical." Metaphysics is mainly concerned with the nature of reality.

I'm not sure I'm with your definition of metaphysical. Do you take it to mean a kind of macro physics? that's the impression that I get. Forgive me if thaqt is incorrect.

It's not vague. It's just not dealing with the minutae. The detail is just that, very detailed. For anything to make sense metaphysically, it is my contention that the christian god is the only satisfactory answer. I work that out continually.

And I remember you saying that you believe that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man at the same time. So, how do you continually work out that that is the "only satisfactory answer"?

Well that's a particular problem that Muslims have with Xtianity isn't it. That wasn't at all the minutae I was referencing, but I'll entertain your question. I don't have to question the empirical implausibility of that statement. I address the question of a non empirical being. Why shouldn't God be 3 things at once? don't get me wrong... it is something that I've studied at length many times. Islam encompasses the book of Genesis IIRC. Where God says "we created this": clearly plural. Now is God not plural, and Genesis wrong? Or is God one and many at the same time, as Christians assert?

It (But that) doesn't logically imply that only the Christian God nor Allah are necessarily true. Afterall, there are many other religions that encourage you to act positively.

Quite so. I'm not claiming exclusivity on that.

I talked more about than just intelligent design. I summarized the main points in the introduction paragraphs and the summary at the bottom. Just read some of it and then pick out anything you want from there if you disagree with something.

I tried several times

In that thread, I explained how the universe itself is gigantic computer along with providing various links and articles to support this idea. Then, I discussed how such a computational view of the universe relates to Islam by going into more details and by pointing out specific Quranic verses in that thread to show how all of these ideas fit together. And that is something that makes the idea rational, at least, even if incorrect. And it is a metaphysical idea that I find to be very compatible with my own religious beliefs although other people may or may not find it compatible.

I've had such notions myself. The Matrix was an incredible film wasn't it?
Joking aside, I have no problem with the comparison. No objection to it. I don't see any unique ideas about faith and religion there, unless you could kindly point some out for me.

But you, fr0d0, in a different thread said that you have nothing regarding the existence of God and that you simply believe in him.

Here's the quote:

I have nothing regarding the existence of God because that is never the question for me. I believe in him. I am not concerned with his existence.

^ fr0d0's comments in response to theVOID

Good job finding that

That's what I think exactly. God is not an existant being in that sense. He is what we refer to him as, and not what empiricists might want to insist, despite all of the rationalisations to the contrary.

Given a creator god, god is everything. From a vaccuum to the most solid of objects, it's all god. God is not separate.

Now I assume that you will have no problem with that. I have a feeling that we both think the same thing on this.

Not rude, in my opinion, but maybe just a little disingenuous. He repeatedly kept saying things like you're too childish, you're too stupid to understand, you're not worth it, that you're being a jerk, that you're pig headed, <insert personal criticism>, etc. just to avoid answering the question that you asked.

I think you bolted on my comments to the other two very annoying posters. If you run with the mob, then you should expect to be on the receiving end of retaliation against that mob. Maybe it was an accidental association with Raphael, and I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think that he does that on purpose because he is afraid that others will dismantle his arguments completely once he answers your question.

Nice.

So do you find you can dismanle my arguments now that you've heard them?

And technically, it's called "dodging" which fr0d0 is very good at, right fr0d0?

Erm... no rayaan. I am perfectly capable of deciding what I respond to. No one else gets to dictate that.

I was just taking my time and sneakily watching the atheists here grill you for a while.

Dodging you mean?