The Stage is Yours.

[Rayaan]

Well let me try to explain why then... IMO supporters of ID to attribute complexity in nature to a deity, stating that this couldn't be natural processes alone. Now I think you're on track with me here, but just to check... I think nature alone explains nature, and the metaphysical question never encroaches upon the scientific mechanisms that we can discover. This is no god of the gaps. This is NOMA. I have heard Muslims quote the Quran like it's made scientific statements which are empirically sound which therefore support Islam over the Christian Bible which makes no such statements. I think you're in some middle ground here, with a foot in both camps. Which you cannot have, to be logically correct on metaphysics.

Well, yeah, I think that I'm somewhere in the middle ground. I also understand what your opinion is on this. You like to keep the physical world and the metaphysical strictly separate, while I tend to merge them together since I do not think that they are incompatible nor contradictory. You probably disagree with such a view and I can understand your position and I respect that as well, nonetheless. You don't see any connections between the two. I don't know why, but maybe the reason is because my brain finds more connections than yours. Oh well.

I will condense this post to the more important parts in your post and leave out the rest for now because those points are mostly talking about the physical/metaphysical issue that we were discussing and we've gone over that a couple of times already. And that way it would be easier for us to continue the discussion. You presented your point of view on this matter and I presented mine. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly, though.

I will keep your other comments in the back of my mind and I may use them for reference in our future discussions. Thank you for your post.

But, for now, I will respond to the following.

You mention that Allah can destroy. From what I've studied of Islam, Allah has the ability to do evil. It isn't worded exactly like that, but that's the general point. This contradicts the logical steps back to a creator god who is necessarily a positive force. A force capable of both good and bad cannot be the originator. It must originate from one or the other. A negative force destroys itself. Only a positive force can create. ....goes the line of reasoning.

I will break up my rebuttal to that into six parts below:

1. Firstly, in what sense are you using the word "evil'? Are you talking about evil in the moral sense or evil as in things like natural disasters/diseases/calamities?

2. Of course I believe that Allah can destroy, but that doesn't mean that Allah himself is evil. The Christian god also destroys, but does that necessarily make Him evil?

3. In this post (sorry, you got search ninja'd again), you admitted that God indirectly created evil. So, whether directly or indirectly, He did create evil - Satan and Hell, for example.

4. The following are verses from the Bible that support that God is the source of both good and evil and that he also destroys according to his will:

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Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 7:23
And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

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5. Coming back to Islam, I would like to know exactly what parts of your so remarkable study of Islam led you to conclude that Allah does evil while your God only does good. This is not to say that I think that the Christian God is evil either because I consider Him to be the same God as Allah minus all the Trinity stuff that were probably added later on by certain authors (as supported by Bart Ehrman's extensive research of the Bible). Furthermore, I believe that all the Abrahamic religions trace back to the same origin and the same God.

6. In relation to the above, I'm also curious to know what is it exactly about Allah and/or which of His attributes that you find contradictory. I have provided a link below to Allah's 99 attributes as mentioned in the Quran and then you look at them tell me which of them you find to be inconsistent and/or contradictory.

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm

I would therefore classify Allah as a lesser god. One necessarily beneath the Christian God in the logical food chain of metaphysical origins. (due to his bipolar nature, as described by Islam).

Allah does have bipolar attributes, but those are not his his primary nature or his primary attribute. His 99 attributes are secondary attributes. But we cannot comprehend his primary attribute as the Quran says, "No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things" (6:103).

Secondly, someone having bipolar qualities does not have to mean that those qualities contradict each other. For example, sometimes I can get angry and/or punish someone depending on the situation, and at other times, I can also be loving and merciful. However, these bipolar qualities that I and everyone else possess within ourselves does not mean that they are contradictory nor does it mean that we are inherently evil. This is how I think of Allah's attributes as well.

Speaking of bipolar, you believe that God is one and many at the same time as said in your post above and, obviously, you don't see anything wrong with that one, eh?