RE: Is becoming like God good or evil?
July 12, 2012 at 9:39 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2012 at 10:16 pm by Reforged.)
(July 11, 2012 at 11:46 pm)Godschild Wrote:(July 11, 2012 at 6:07 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Read the Bible cover to cover so yeah, I know a fair bit about your religion. I would appreciate it if everytime I came up with a good point that makes you look horribly misinformed you'd stop blaming it, somewhat predictably, on *my* lack of knowledge. It doesn't logically follow and it only serves to make you look rather childish.
Now to point out the obvious. God is omnipotent, therefore he knows how everythings going to turn out. He knew they'd take the apple.
What was the point in putting it there in the first place?
And before you say it was a test, it was a test he already knew the results to so that doesn't explain anything.
Also you said that he wanted us to follow in his footsteps, wouldn't alot of those footsteps require us to have knowledge of good and evil? But then he says he doesn't want Adam and Eve to obtain this knowledge so assuming he doesn't change his mind either you're lying, hes lying or hes purposely setting an impossible task. Which is it?
Reading is not the same as studying, people hear say I just read scientific stuff without studying so if the atheist community here is setting the standard it needs to be applied to all works. If you do not like being called out on your lack of Biblical knowledge you should study and not just read.
Agreed God is omniscient, agreed God knew they would disobey Him by eating the fruit, agreed He knows how everything will turn out.
Adam and Eve had no idea how things would go, at first they had no desire to eat the fruit, they enjoyed walking with God in the cool of the evening. God enjoyed the love they had for Him, and why not we all do. The greatest love they showed for God was obeying the one commandment He gave them, the fruit was there because of love, they had the freedom to disobey and fall or obey and continue in grace. Well we all know how it turned out. It was not a test, never was meant to be, it had to be there for Adam and Eve to show total love for God.
Yes God wants us to try to live as close as we can to His perfect standard. Because we have the knowledge of good and evil is why God has to ask us to live close to His perfect standard, if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God then there would be no need in Him asking us to live close to His standard. We would be doing that, unless someone else disobeyed God's commandment.
Placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden was not for a task as you put it, it was there because God wanted Adam and Eve and everyone else to love Him through obedience. Just like parents want their children to show love to them by obeying them. Obedience is trust and I do not know of a greater way to show love to others than through trust.
No one has lied nor deceived.
I was under the impression reading is a form of study and read I have on numerous subjects not least of all religion. The Bible is a book I have read on the subject. I also took RE as an applied subject for five years and was raised by a catholic mother. What particular form of study have you undergone that gives you better insight? Scientists at first learn through reading, discussion and lectures, they later learn from experiments which successfully apply what they have learned. I have read about, discussed and attended lectures on religion. Seen as religion doesn't have an equivalent to experimentation what are you suggesting? You can't possibly accuse me of lacking knowledge if you don't outline what that knowledge is and where it comes from. Otherwise its a statement without any meaning behind it, you'd be calling me ignorant for the sake of calling me ignorant which is not acceptable in any civilized debate.
If what you say is true then the only reason he put the apple there was to experience temporary worship and control over those he had created. He knew they would take it and he knew he would cast them out as a result into a land of suffering where they would wither and die. He knew this yet he still went through with it just so he could have his own personal fan club for a while before disowning them due to a circumstance of his own creation.
These are the implications of what you have just written, how is this not a despicable being?
He knew this obedience wouldn't be given forever, he knew it like he supposedly knows everything. If what unfolded unfolded then it could not of unfolded any other way, in a universe where omnipotence is possible freewill is not. He made the decision to put the apple there knowing where it would lead and put it there anyway. The victims of these machinations would not be to blame, it would be the one who designed them and the guilt would rest entirely with him. A parent would not do this to their child, it would be cruelty of the highest degree. Obedience is not trust. You trust in friends, you trust in family and in mentors. You do not serve them. Obedience is what a slave would have for his master. If you do not believe me you should look up the two definitions and see how they look side by side.
I will put the query to you more clearly with what you've written taken into account:
Why would a loving God set a course of events he knew would cause pain and suffering to his creations for the sake of temporary servility from them?
If creating a being like him was his goal why did he not simply create beings like him to begin with?
I don't know is an acceptable answer if that is the only one you can honestly say you have.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
- Abdul Alhazred.