RE: Is becoming like God good or evil?
July 16, 2012 at 7:17 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2012 at 7:26 pm by Reforged.)
(July 16, 2012 at 11:52 am)Godschild Wrote:(July 15, 2012 at 6:44 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Sorry, who the fuck are you to say I misunderstood? Because I haven't arrived at the same conclusion as you I *must* have misread the text right? Yours couldn't *possibly* be the incorrect interpretation. Is that how you came to the idea I haven't studied? Because I don't give answers you like? Do you even understand the level of arrogance you're operating from? Frankly the idea of you accusing anyone of cherry picking is laughable.
Anyway, enough of your sidetracking:
Your statements contradict, if God knew the outcome then he presented a "choice" that negated freewill. Because he knew the outcome he knew that his instructions and his choice to place the tree would lead irrevocably to the destination it would.
If the outcome is known then it is no longer a choice but a machination. Being aware of this machination, this series of events of his own design that would inevitably arise from how he chose to act he went through with it anyway.
God was presented with a choice to spare his children a traumatizing experience or subject them to it, the only real choice in the story.
He chose the latter. These are the events the Bible shows if his omnipotence is to be believed.
In which case it isn't me who isn't making sense, it is the Bible, the concept of omnipotence or both and I am merely demonstrating this.
Please show me if you find anything to be a leap in logic here.
... :-)
God was not presented with a choice, that's like saying a teacher giving a test is presented with a choice, when in actuality it is the one taking the test who has to make a choice when answering the question. If the one taking the test gives some wrong answers then the score will reflect the wrong choices, a punishment of sorts. If the one who takes the test is traumatized, it's not the teachers fault, the one who takes the test should have listened to what was being taught. The one taking the test knew the consequences of not listening, the responsibility falls on the one taking the test. You can bet the teacher already has an idea of how well the one taking the test will do.
Now the teacher could have taken the test or just given the student a good score without giving the test, tell me what would be accomplished by that.
Some major flaws in that comparison:
1. The Teacher does not know with certainty the result.
2. By all accounts God does not have an exam board dictating his actions.
3. Exams last a specified amount of time, this "test" did not. The time remaining was eternal making a pass impossible.
4. If a student fails then a teacher will alter their teaching technique according to the type of student. They do not expel them from the school after one fail.
5. God did not offer them any education as to why the tree was important, what its function was and what its placement was meant to teach them. This is the opposite to the teachers approach as it offers minimal information.
6. If a teachers lessons are so harsh and cruel that it traumatizes the student then it *is* the teachers fault and they should not be allowed to teach, period.
All and all your comparison bares little, if any, in the way of similarity.
I would strongly advise finding another and trying again if you wish to continue this debate with any kind of consistency to your argument.
The fact of the matter is if God is omnipotent then it couldn't be further from the truth to say that placing the tree wasn't a choice. On the contrary, *nobody* has more choice. This means that he could of altered his approach to be more merciful and at the same time teach the lesson he wished to teach. He knew the future and therefore was capable of altering it.
He did not, this requires explanation.
If he is not omnipotent then this would explain his lack of foresight but it also means he can't know everything and therefore he does have limitations.
You cannot have it both ways unless you say this is the outcome he wished and I think you know it.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
- Abdul Alhazred.