RE: The Need to Breed
August 14, 2012 at 9:59 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2012 at 10:16 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 14, 2012 at 6:49 pm)apophenia Wrote:
No offense, Rhythm, but I find your position rather unclear. You first suggest that population control be tried as the last option after controlling all other factors of the environment, which left me puzzled.
No problem, let me clear that up for you. First world/developed nations already engage in sort of unintentional or unconsidered population control (we have the fewest children per household on average) and it's done jack shit. In fact, the situation has become worse -by most accounts- due to the rates and quantity of consumption of first world/developed nations.
so....
Quote:(If the point is preservation of the species, then if controlling population growth is the most effective means of preserving the species, why choose that as a last resort? If preservation of the species is not the goal, then what is?)
That "if" doesn't seem to have any real world support, case in point, the situation is precisely the opposite of what we would expect. To take this further - "If, for example, the American household decided to forgo just one child (on average), that's less that one child (on average) left. That's biological and cultural suicide. Forgive me if I don't think that the solution to our problems is to will ourselves into oblivion, and certainly not to will others into oblivion.....(granted, that -would- solve our problems...all of them). On the issue of effective solutions, laying aside that we don't actually have any reason to think that this would be an effective solution (at least not in and of itself), lets imagine some other "effective solutions". I could end all poverty in the world, with enough bullets. Effective, but not a "solution", agreed? But hey, end of the day this is just my opinion on population control. I don't think it's kosher (even when we invoke the hypothetical perfect world with perfect governments stretched to their limits considering population control I still can't get behind it), others may think it is, and if there are more of them than there are of me then we have an issue eh? What do we do about that issue? Are you going to educate me? Do I seem to need education on the subject?
Quote:Now you've clarified your position.... somewhat. You state that none of the population control solutions on the table are workable or fair, and you'll defer until people come up with a good population control solution.... in the midst of a conversation about finding solutions. A sort of, "Let's not try to find a solution, until we find a solution."
I don't see any other solutions being offered up in this thread, do you? All I see is population control. Try this "Lets not tell Joe Third World he cant have any more kids until we deal with our own shit and have a leg to stand on, and further, lets not tell Joe Third World to stop having kids unless we have good metrics on our hand -which we don't-
Quote:You seem to be denigrating both the proposed solutions and any attempts to find a solution, in the absence of a bona fide self-evident solution.
Except that the only solution that's been offered up thusfar is population control, and that's all I'm taking a stance against.
Quote:This seems profoundly confusing to me. How do we find solutions without trying to find solutions, through discussion, or through real world trials?
You keep using the plural.......have we been reading the same thread?
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