I'm 'kinda' gay, so I think I can provide a little input here, can't I? Let's see if I can deal with all the 'wrongness' of this post, shall we?
Those are all stereotypes and aren't always true. I have several friends who are gay men who aren't anything like this.
However, there's something else I've noticed. Loud, obnoxious jerks get noticed simply because they're loud and obnoxious. I'm in class and it's easy to notice the two or three guys who keep yelling stupid comments every time they get the chance. It would be easy for me to have a negative opinion of men except for one thing: What you don't notice is the other eight or nine quiet guys, sitting in the back of the room. In your case, the gay men you notice are the most loud, obnoxious, flamboyant and visible ones. The ones you don't notice are the ones just going out there, living their lives like anyone else would and blending in with the rest of society. When you get involved in gay culture, you really find a lot more of those people. I know gay men who are doctors, lawyers or counselors. I went to school with one who wanted to work but couldn't because of the student visa laws so he just worked as hard in class as he could and pretty much had straight A's.
Then be picky. Nothing wrong with having standards. If anything it's a good thing; you don't wind up with a loser whose just going to drag you down.
There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin. First off, why do you think suddenly identifying as 'straight,' whether you mean it or not, will suddenly make you change your personality? And if you're ashamed of being a femmy gay man, and you're able to change that aspect to yourself, what's to prevent you from being a 'straight acting' gay man? I've met a lot of them; you wouldn't even know they're gay unless you specifically asked.
Ugh. Don't even get started on that bullshit.
I've met a lot who are just plain ol' basketcases. No job, emotionally unstable, clingy and, yes, preachy about feminist extremism. Not always good.
The big problem is, every time science has a crack at it and tries to find a reliable way to 'cure' gay people, they always come back with the same answer: it can't be 'cured' and trying just hurts everyone involved. Christian groups are only able to ignore this science because they've made a regular habit of ignoring science, whether it's the mountain of scientific evidence that backs up evolution, the science proving global warming or the science that says the world is over populated.
You don't have to date, which isn't a bad goal. Heck, it always seems to work out with me; I tell myself 'no dating' and wind up with a relationship within a month or so. But staying single until you find someone who meets your high standards would probably be a more fruitful goal than trying to straighten yourself out.
I will also say, I think sexual orientation is more of a spectrum thing than a black or white thing. One person may be attracted to women 90% of the time, another may be attracted to women 80% of the time and so on. So there may be a small part of you that can find certain women attractive. The only way I could see you being sort of straight would be if you have that part of you that's already partially attracted to women and trying to explore that attraction. But forcing yourself to have an attraction that isn't there just doesn't work.
(August 22, 2012 at 12:09 pm)sleep Wrote: a) Any gay male I've met has been sub-par, at best, with one or (usually) more of the following: really flawed personality, shitty or no job or goals in life, substance-user, or (as shallow as this is) really unattractive, among other stuff. And yes, I fit a few of those (the one I don't fit is that I'm strictly substance-free).
b) Gay males make fools of themselves in front of everybody, and pretty much make everybody hate them. They have to force their views and agenda onto everybody.
Those are all stereotypes and aren't always true. I have several friends who are gay men who aren't anything like this.
However, there's something else I've noticed. Loud, obnoxious jerks get noticed simply because they're loud and obnoxious. I'm in class and it's easy to notice the two or three guys who keep yelling stupid comments every time they get the chance. It would be easy for me to have a negative opinion of men except for one thing: What you don't notice is the other eight or nine quiet guys, sitting in the back of the room. In your case, the gay men you notice are the most loud, obnoxious, flamboyant and visible ones. The ones you don't notice are the ones just going out there, living their lives like anyone else would and blending in with the rest of society. When you get involved in gay culture, you really find a lot more of those people. I know gay men who are doctors, lawyers or counselors. I went to school with one who wanted to work but couldn't because of the student visa laws so he just worked as hard in class as he could and pretty much had straight A's.
Quote:c) Less chance of finding love, obviously. I'm a misanthrope to begin with and hate most people. Finding a gay male I get along with can be almost impossible (I'm technically in a relationship but I doubt it'll work out). Finding someone I get along with AND find attractive... mission impossible.
Then be picky. Nothing wrong with having standards. If anything it's a good thing; you don't wind up with a loser whose just going to drag you down.
Quote:d) It just feels embarrassing to me. Most societies force men to "act like men", including liking (feminine) women. It'd be one thing if I was one of the masculine gay men, but I'm not. Most people know I'm gay as soon as they meet me, no matter how hard I try to hide it. I'm too stereotypical and I feel ashamed. I know that it's because I was brainwashed by society into thinking this way, but I don't think there's any way to unbrainwash me.
There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin. First off, why do you think suddenly identifying as 'straight,' whether you mean it or not, will suddenly make you change your personality? And if you're ashamed of being a femmy gay man, and you're able to change that aspect to yourself, what's to prevent you from being a 'straight acting' gay man? I've met a lot of them; you wouldn't even know they're gay unless you specifically asked.
Quote:You'll notice I'm not mentioning gay women (lesbians). While a few have annoyed the living daylight out of me with their radical feminazi views among other stuff,
Ugh. Don't even get started on that bullshit.
Quote: most have been very nice and decent, hard-working women. So I don't have much against them. Plus, they tend to keep quiet about being lesbians.
I've met a lot who are just plain ol' basketcases. No job, emotionally unstable, clingy and, yes, preachy about feminist extremism. Not always good.
Quote:Among the straight atheists who dislike homosexuals, they usually give good reasons. It has no intended purpose in nature (I feel useless). The gay men I've seen and met contributed nothing good to society. The feminine ones who preach acceptance of feminine men are teaching men that it's okay to be weak and girly, and that someone should be there to protect them. If I had more radical teachings of the opposite, maybe I'd have toughened up and have been more manly.
Sorry this thread was so long, I'll stop now.
So, is there any way to make myself straight while still not caring about religion? I just want to fit into society better, not feel ashamed/embarassed about myself, meet and date decent people, etc. Thanks for reading.
PS- I would have posted this on like an ex-gay forum... couldn't find any. Just Christian forums.
The big problem is, every time science has a crack at it and tries to find a reliable way to 'cure' gay people, they always come back with the same answer: it can't be 'cured' and trying just hurts everyone involved. Christian groups are only able to ignore this science because they've made a regular habit of ignoring science, whether it's the mountain of scientific evidence that backs up evolution, the science proving global warming or the science that says the world is over populated.
You don't have to date, which isn't a bad goal. Heck, it always seems to work out with me; I tell myself 'no dating' and wind up with a relationship within a month or so. But staying single until you find someone who meets your high standards would probably be a more fruitful goal than trying to straighten yourself out.
I will also say, I think sexual orientation is more of a spectrum thing than a black or white thing. One person may be attracted to women 90% of the time, another may be attracted to women 80% of the time and so on. So there may be a small part of you that can find certain women attractive. The only way I could see you being sort of straight would be if you have that part of you that's already partially attracted to women and trying to explore that attraction. But forcing yourself to have an attraction that isn't there just doesn't work.
