Reply to "Atheist and ex-gay?"

[Comprehender]

A poster named, "Sleep" asked some questions and had some concerns I would like to address. Yet I realize the rules state that to reply to a thread that is more than 30 days old requires creating a new thread, so here it is.

Dear Sleep,
You have a right to discuss your thoughts and feelings in respectful ways, as you did without being called names & other logical fallallacies. I've noticed you have not been on this forum much since you received so many adhominem attacks, but I hope you get this note.

You have given me hope - that there are people out there that care more about truth than comfort. Very rare indeed.

You wrote:

I'm a gay male and don't want to be. It has nothing to do with religion, God, Jesus, sins, all that nonsense. I have a list of reasons...

Anyway, the ex-gay ministries out there are only religious. I don't want that. I don't care about Christ or the Bible teachings. I just want to be a straight atheist. The few friends I do have are almost all straight atheists. They're the best people I've ever met...

So, is there any way to make myself straight while still not caring about religion? I just want to fit into society better, not feel ashamed/embarassed about myself, meet and date decent people, etc. Thanks for reading.

I think these are good points & a good question.
I do agree with some who encourage you to love yourself, not in a way that accepts any harmful behavior, but to realize TRUTH HAPPENS. I believe in a mix of both free will and predetermined aspects. The free will part makes it very complicated to estimate exactly how or why things like same-sex attraction come about, but there are reasons. But more importantly, to consider some of the reasons requires a compassionate look at one's self - one's past, one's primary influential relationships & other major life influences.

I concur with science that tells us that we are not born with homosexual preferences, or any sexual preferences, for that matter. We are born with brains that are only 25% developed so we can better adapt to environmental influences. Such environmental influences can vary from what we eat (esp. food with hormones)... to... relationships to... what we think which affects e-motions, which affects physiology. Often times, especially when some type of environmental influence begins at a young age, it can feel as if it is inborn, because we are programed to adapt to environmental influences so well that our physiology is affected.

There is a illogical herd mentality emerging that denies axiomatic truths. Some try to pretend that homosexual preferences are as healthy as, or even healthier than homosexual preferences, yet basic science & common sense tells us that heterosexuality is so healthy & life-promoting that it is the basis of our existence. And as you noted, there are some homosexual practices that are not healthy. Ex gay-rights leader & ex-homosexual, Michael Glatz said, "Homosexuality is death & I choose life."

I salute you for not caving in to herd mentality that dishes out lies, as bad or worse than the lies religious herd mentality does. I also admire your strength to recognize & accept basic scientific truth, even when so many are illogically denying it.

To anwer your question, I don't know a lot about reparative therapy, but it's something you could look into on a more local level, or online...
http://narth.com/docs/repair.html

PS- I would have posted this on like an ex-gay forum... couldn't find any. Just Christian forums.

It is strange that the focus is so Christian.
I searched & found this - I don't know how good it is, but I hope you well...
http://www.beyondexgay.com/community

[Annik]

I concur with science that tells us that we are not born with homosexual preferences, or any sexual preferences, for that matter. We are born with brains that are only 25% developed so we can better adapt to environmental influences. Such environmental influences can vary from what we eat (esp. food with hormones)... to... relationships to... what we think which affects e-motions, which affects physiology. Often times, especially when some type of environmental influence begins at a young age, it can feel as if it is inborn, because we are programed to adapt to environmental influences so well that our physiology is affected.

I--um... Are you claiming to know the answer the nature vs nurture?

[Tino]

I concur with science that tells us that we are not born with homosexual preferences, or any sexual preferences, for that matter.

Please back this up with link(s) to the sources. I've seen at least one study to the contrary - it showed that a man was more likely to be gay based on the number of younger brothers he has. As I recall the analysis was that a male baby inside the womb causes hormones/antibodies (I don't recall exactly) to be released in the mother during the pregnancy and some of this remains after the birth. If a second male baby is conceived, that baby is exposed to even a higher level, and so on, with the finding of a correlation of likeliness to be gay with number of younger brothers.

[Rev. Rye]

And here's the RationalWiki Page for NARTH.
The important thing to note is that there's one thing all ex-gay organisations have in common: they don't work.
And if you don't want to take my word for it, take John Smid's. He headed one of the strictest ex-gay programs for a quarter of a century and he actually admitted that he's never seen one person make the transition from gay to straight.

[festive1]

I agree with Tino, links are needed. I've also see studies that correlate the higher number of boys a woman has with the increased incidence of homosexuality in boys that have a few older brothers.

[Faith No More]

Alan Chambers, head of Exodus International, who has spent his life trying to help people "pray the gay away" also disagrees with you.

Last month, Exodus International made it official: It would no longer associate with or promote therapy that focuses on changing sexual attraction.

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/06/156367287/...-cure-gays

Oh, and don't just assert things without proof, especially when attempting to prove that certain people's behavior is unhealthy. It just makes you sound like a bigot, so please, back up your claims.

[Tino]

I agree with Tino, links are needed. I've also see studies that correlate the higher number of boys a woman has with the increased incidence of homosexuality in boys that have a few older brothers.

Festive and Tino agreeing on something? Not a good omen. Better get right with god folks.

[TaraJo]

Y'know, I've met a lot of gay people in my life. I've also known a lot of people who tried to fight it when they realized they were gay. Know what all those people have in common? Every last one of them that I've talked to has admitted that fighting it hurt them in the long run and that they wish they had just been honest with themselves earlier. You know what else? Pretty much every credible psychological organization on earth agrees with them. I mean, fuck, even the leaders of ex gay ministries have apologized and come out as gay themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDiYeJ_bsQo

[Rev. Rye]

And here's the RationalWiki Page for NARTH.
The important thing to note is that there's one thing all ex-gay organisations have in common: they don't work.
And if you don't want to take my word for it, take John Smid's. He headed one of the strictest ex-gay programs for a quarter of a century and he actually admitted that he's never seen one person make the transition from gay to straight.

Thank you for the edit, Kannyeh!

[Comprehender]

Annik,
Axiomatic truth that sexual fettishes are not inborn.


Tino,
I haven't heard that one, although I have heard both that older brothers are & are not statistically correlated with developing homosexual fettishes.

Men who have no father or one who is passively involved, along with a more dominant mother has been statisitcally correlated with homosexual fettishes, although of course, it's not always the case.
A history of sexual or physical abuse is another major factor that is seen in many who develop homosexual fettishes.

More and more men and women are experiencing "estrogen dominance" - from various evironmental sources, which could also contribute to this, although I imagine it would have to be joined with other factors. It's really complex - as we all are, especially when it comes to psychology & inter-personal relationships.

There's more research on men with homosexual fettishes than there is of women with homosexual fettishes - for one reason being that women tend to have bi-sexual tendencies & thus cannot be statistically counted as having purely homosexual fettishes.


TaraJo,
That's incorrect information - & being so, it is not only unhelpful, but misleading. Many have overcome & studies show that attempts to overcome homosexual fettishes doesn't hurt most. No doubt, you have your dysfunctional therapist here & there... but that is more of a therapy-mismatch than the therapy process itself.

The bottom line is that homosexual practices statistically prove to be harmful - anal sex is harmful, as is changing partners often, which has been shown to contract & spread AIDS & STDs in homosexuals at a disproportionatly high rate. Most people with a healthy sense of sexuality want to have sex. True sexual intercourse is between a man's sexual part and a woman's. A man's anus is not a sexual part - but is intended to be an "exit only" & using it as an entrance in anal sex involves risks of anal fissurs, bacterial infection, anal cancer & colon rupture.

Most healthy people want to engage in healthy activities & realize that homosexual feelings motivate unhealthy activities, & thus there is the desire to stop the thoughts that produce the desire. Such people deserve respect and encouragement.