Where do atheists get their morality from?

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

A very longe and laborious dissertationne on moralitudes thatte referrs to the contributionnes of that dastardly pirate Vinny.

Truthfully, paesan, you likely don't want to directly address me because you think I'm going to troll you, you don't know if I'm serious, you think I'm a theist, you don't like my constant harping on the limits and restrictions of aspects of atheism, yadda yadda. And I understand.

But it appears as though you are one of the few people here who actually take these intellectual issues seriously. At least, to a much greater extent than the average atheist here who is- sad as it is to point out- content with arbitrary, post-hoc unsubstantiated pop-evolutionary explanations for what is actually a very serious matter for the intelligent atheist to consider.

You have attained some measure of admiration from my part for your willingness to go into such depth, especially in a challenging environment- in front of trolls and dastardly theists. There are very few atheists I know, even famous ones, who have such a passion for serious engagement of the issues.

The contrast between you and every other atheist here (barring perhaps C-D) is a very stark one from my perspective. And I hope some of your conscientious, introspective nature rubs off on the others here.

You have specifically brought up a problem with my "problem of moral subjectivism". The manner in which you state it leads me to believe that you agree with me when I say, strictly logically: "it is a distinct possibility that given moral subjectivism, in some possible world that the moral subjectivist will see horrendous atrocities as not just fun, or exciting or pleasurable or desirable, but morally good".

Your objection is not that what I am saying is not true, but it is, as you say: "...things that might be that never will be." In other words, it will never happen that we will be in a possible world where eugenics, torture and abuse of the vulnerable will be morally acceptable.

I won't press my disagreement with you here. But I would like to point out, quite humbly, the lessons we learned from the atrocities of the past, and how they were facilitated with the consent and tacit approval that followed the appropriate rationalizations by the community.

The case studies of Mengele. North Korea. Even Saddam Hussein's Iraq and the morbid absurdities that took place under his watch should lead us to reject any stance of glib dismissal. "Oh this will never happen..." In fact, if you are pro-life on the issue of abortion, I think this is an almost daily reminder.

If you wish not to respond, or to respond with contempt towards me like the others, I'm okay with that. You don't have to respond at all if you choose.

But please don't assume so quickly that such things will never happen. The human capacity to rationalize moral horrors is a frighteningly powerful feature of the human psyche. If at all you are concerned about humanity over perhaps your defense of this moral view, then you should really be troubled and search for a substantial answer to this problem.

I will slow my rate of posting on these forums. Much to the relief of the administration of these fora and the atheists who have become so troubled by my presence, whether for good reasons or bad. In fact an event like this ought to be celebrated on these here forums. I'm of the mind to start a whole new thread so that people can celebrate.

But it fills me with grief. It's one thing to reject the theists with their arguments. It's another thing to not see just how ethically irresponsible moral subjectivism really is- a problem that is a problem in itself, rather than just some theistic talking point.