Christians

[Edwardo Piet]

You haven't explained how you can get a hope. Just made empty statements and promoted vainness.

I get hope from things that inspire me and make me feel hope. It is influenced by the outside, the environment and is also down to my genetic make up. It's a matter of evolution.

But I'm no expert and that, and nor do I have to be. The point is you haven't given evidence for God's existence. So how is he relevant to hope if you haven't even evidenced him yet?

I need evidence 1. That God exists and 2. That he's required for hope.

I already have hope, however I get it, I have it. As do other atheists and people of many different kinds of beliefs. You need to evidence that God is required in any way.

The evidence for God is the universe - what other evidence would I have?
You're just asserting that he i You say, "no, that's life" - what in the hell is that supposed to mean?

It means that when you say that the universe is evidence for God, you're merely asserting that because you haven't explained how that's the case. You haven't explained why God is required for the universe. The universe, life, exists either way until you explain why God is required in any way. Otherwise you're just pointing at life and the universe - because you haven't explained why God is required yet.

If the universe is a mystery to you then it needs an explanation (so if you're honest). It is not so reasonable to question "where God came from" because we can't see God in the traditional sense - and see where the evidence might take us.

You're merely defining God as the beginning and not needing an explanation. If something had to be at the beginning, why does that have to be God?

It would certainly be nice to have an explanation yes. But no I don't need one to dismiss God at all. Because merely asserting God isn't an explanation. I'd rather settle for no explanation, a "I don't know" if I had to, than asserting something without any evidence for the truth of it. Rather saying "I don't know" than having a delusional belief, than having a fallacious explanation. A non-answer.

Building a case for God from the universe is hard enough with the universe to look at - now you expect someone to build a case for where God came from or why God exists without being able to see Him or His circumstances or who knows what. That's crazy in my opinion,

Well what you are saying would make sense if this case for the universe explaining God's existence was indeed built! You are merely asserting that. Until it is actually evidenced that the universe builds a case for God, or that anything else does, then there's no reason to believe in him. I need evidence.

The universe is self-evident. To say that the universe is evidence for God is an assertion, and you either need to back that up, you need to evidence that the Universe is indeed evidence for a supernatural creator, or you have basically just labeled the Universe with the word "God." The universe itself is indeed self-evident. But how does that point to a supernatural creator? Where is the evidence for that?

[...]it certainly isn't a fair question to pose in response to the question of where this universe came from... Our circumstances don't allow that question to be reasonable.[/quote]

Our circumstances is irrelevant to the fact you are simply asserting that God exists and that the universe is evidence for him. You need to explain that, otherwise you're committing a bare assertion fallacy, you're simply saying "it's true because it's true." Unless you explain why the universe is evidence for God, there's no reason to believe that it is. I'm not just going to believe things without reason, and I don't believe any rational person would. Rationality is reasonable.

EvF and theVOID, how can anyone deny that this universe needs an explanation? It is a great mystery to everyone here is it not?

Some people don't feel the need, some do. I do feel the need, but if there's no explanation yet, until there is an explanation...I'm going to stick with "I don't know" because I'm not going to pretend there's one when there isn't. I'm not going to believe prematurely.

What I deny is that "God" is necessarily an explanation for the universe. Because I won't believe that until there's any evidence that the universe - or anything else - is evidence for God in any way. I don't know of any any I'm not going to just believe without reason.

Science isn't asking that question, so you sure as hell won't find the answer in science. How can you set up an experiment that demonstrates why our universe exists?

Religion is dealing with that question and has been for thousands of years, so why would you look to science that has never dealt with the question...in fact, scientifically you can't conceive of approaching it. I challenge you to solve the great mystery through the scientific process though, because it is a life-changing topic.

This is all irrelevant to the fact you haven't provided any evidence for God. Whether science has an answer or not, what evidence is there that religion has one? At all?

I'd rather be honest and say "I don't know" than accept God without any evidence for the truth of him. That would be delusional.

EvF