Christians

[theVOID]

[quote='theVOID' pid='32777' dateline='1252734337']I never said that, i'm a big fan of science for the reason that it IS getting us answers and moving us forward as a species as opposed to your religion that is doing fuck all.

I like science, but I can't stoop to your level.[/quote]

I'm just telling you that it's stupid to believe in something that has no evidence to support it, regardless of how easy or comforting your belief is.

Let's see some examples bub. Of course I'd ask for those![/quote Wrote:Here you go then, some real answers that have their origins outside of human speculation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fa...e_universe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_dimension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity

Research each of these topics and you will realize than NONE of them rely on God.

[quote='theVOID']I love cosmology, astrophysics, quantum mechanics, evolutionary biology, abiogenisis and the like, these are the topics that give us REAL and MEANINGFUL answers about the universe, life and origins in general, not the thoughts of primitive men.

All the topics you listed have nothing to do with the question I asked - or the speculations you of course participate in... Did you realize that?

No, but they are HOW we are going to find the answers, by asking more and more questions and demanding more and more evidence to satisfy the questions being asked. We are not going to find answers in the ancient myths of god or in the speculative minds of man. The truth is external to man and indifferent to the thoughts of man.

We have a very good idea how life on this planet originated and it wasn't through sky daddy saying 'ta-da', we also have a very good idea of the history of the universe and that also does not require sky daddy, and it's not surprising considering his origins in the mind of primitive men.

But the universe's existence is still a mystery though, right?

It is, and you can imagine as many myths or explanations as you want, all of them are invalid until supported by objective evidence.

Getting an understanding of the origin of life and the universe is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle, each scientist in these fields is out there every day picking up the pieces one at a time and making absolutely sure they all fit, there are still a lot of pieces missing for now but we have millions more pieces than the ancient religious originators and as such we are able to see a far more accurate picture of the universe that their limited intellects ever could.

Still not addressing the big question.

You are asking a question to which we have no answers! That has been made perfectly clear by everyone here - we don't know yet. What we do know is 1. The universe works fine without god 2. there is no evidence for his existence 3. god is only one of an infinite number of potential assumptions - all of which are equally likely/unlikely until verified objectively.

Face it ecolox, Religion can offer us nothing else in the way of piecing together the puzzle because all you ever do is sit around contemplating ancient texts written by (and i'll say it again to make it clear) PRIMITIVE MEN rather than actively trying to piece together the puzzle like all the scientists out there are doing every day.

Religion is about figuring out why we exist, in large part... Science has nothing to say about it, and neither do you so far.

Religion does not have the tools to answer these questions!

Religion is not about figuring out why we exist at all, it is about defending the Why you have already been told! The why that originated in ancient society from a feeble attempt to make sense of the universe.

Science is a METHOD - Science has nothing to say about why we exist because it is extremely likely that there is no WHY - the same for us as any object or life in this universe - there is no why, it just is. Does this notion not comfort you? Too bad - Science doesn't seek to make you happy, just to uncover what is!

If you need the fear of god to make you live this life right your mentally unstable, though i doubt you do need him to live a good life, it's just your lifelong brainwashing coming into effect forcing you to attribute everything good to your sky daddy.

Now I'm mentally unstable because I tackle the important questions in life. You people resort to attacks quicker than anyone I know. If you can silence the 'opposition' then you think you've 'won' - yet you never address that big question that we're pushing. I may quit wasting my time with you if you start going crazy and become irrational here...but I can't just give up on what is essential to life as a rational being.

NO - You are mentally unstable because you take an unverified explanation for origins that originated in the speculative minds of primitive men and cling to it because you can't contemplate a world where your comforting delusion does not exist! You aren't tackling these questions, you are avoiding them as best you can by relying on ancient myth!

Silence the opposition? YOU ARE NO OPPOSITION - Science has no opposition because it is a method of verifying truth and truth in any real sense can only be found by methodically investigating the phenomenon in question!

You are not a rational being, you are a deluded fool in denial!

Your big question has been replied to multiple times, but i will do it again. We don't know Why we exist, and that is assuming there is a why at all - which is nothing more than an assumption until verified! What is clear is this; it does not make any difference if we exist for a purpose at all, i will continue to live my life how i want to live it, because i myself, my family and friends, my interests, nature, society, arts, culture, technology, study, truth, fairness and many other things make my life very meaningful - regardless of having no grand purpose.

How can you claim to take the finite life approach when part of your belief is an infinite life of kissing sky daddy's ass?

You can attack my beliefs in these ways, but you will remain ineffective until you offer a real alternative solution.

Here's a better solution:

Big bang -> Universe -> Celestial objects -> Earth -> Abiogenisis -> Evolution -> NOW

There is no purpose to this, no plan, the universe was not created with us in mind, earth was not created for us, evolution did not plan us, so stop believing fairy stories and get of with living your life in whatever way you feel inclined to.

And besides, what purpose do you have in this life as a Christian? To be obedient, to serve, to praise. It can't be about doing good or living well because in your world view Good and evil are only what God says they are, or more correctly, what you have been told to believe god said to some primitive men in the bronze age middle east who, after generations of hearsay, had their interactions with god recorded in a book that you, thousands of years later, still believe is true.

All you try to do is tear down, but I need a place to live. Build me a new house instead if you don't like my old one. But anyway, life in God's universe is very much in sync with His universe - encouraging growth in everyone through good works. I want to do what's good for nature, what's good for myself, what's good for others, etc - to the best of my ability. I love to see growth. I believe destruction is apart from God's nature, and pain is a taste of what being away from God is like. The lasting pleasures in life are good (family, etc), while the short lived pleasures (sex, drugs, etc), when pursued specifically, lead to pain - in a nutshell.

Your house analogy is bullshit - clearly the product of a mind who is scared by the unknown; i pity you.

Who's orders do I follow except God's? The rules I follow are good for growth and sustainability - good for the universe - I will do my best no matter how small I may be.

You are mentally enslaved by this idea of sky daddy! Here's a better solution; Don't follow orders! Don't listen to authority without question! Demand evidence for all claims! Live your own life!

We did not get our sense of right and wrong from religion! Religion got it from US - It is an evolutionary aspect of social animals and ALL social animals display them.

Even the Piranha has one up'ed us in terms of morality; As blood thirsty and viscous as they are they will NEVER hurt their own, something that god's apparent chosen species are unable to do.

Stop being so gullible!

Stop being so useless. If you can't build me a house then I can't let you tear my old one down...sorry.

It is not my job to define your beliefs for you! All i will say is that if you hold any belief of any significance without verifying it as truth through objective means then you are either an idiot or you are so scared of the unknown, so weak minded and Dependant on your sky daddy to give you meaning that you are terrified by the idea that there may be no purpose!

It will become clear to you when you reject the god concept that EVERYTHING you attributed to him as good was something attributed incorrectly - all the good in your life exists independently from this God, so does all the bad - Life is better without silly superstitions forced into the gaps of knowledge.