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Christians
RE: Christians
And all JP does is define God outside of time itself and therefore not need an explanation. He's just defining it that was - he then has to explain that because it's an assertion! God is still complex simply from the shit he does! It does no good to assert that he's simple.

He's the starting force......yeah? So is a big bang singularity, the difference is that the big bang singularity is simple and the universe after that has evidence. If God starts as simple 'pure actuality' then you're basically labelling a singularity until you evidence any of his further developments that actually make him a supernatural creator!

In what way is Jon Paul doing more than simply labelling a singularity as 'pure actuality' that=God? When does he actually evidence the complex stuff that God is apparently capable of afterwards?

By definition, "God" as in a supernatural creator - is complex. If he develops out of simplicity, then that has to be evidenced. If you say that God is simple then you're just labelling simplicity with the word "God", the complexity of a supernatural creator still has no evidence.

I can't argue about evidence and faith with you here, as you know. Luckily faith hasn't been mentioned Tongue - and I'm just arguing about Jon Paul's argument since you mentioned it, I'm not going to get into E and F with you here.

EvF
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Messages In This Thread
Christians - by Darwinian - August 29, 2009 at 5:30 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - August 29, 2009 at 6:03 pm
RE: Christians - by Tiberius - August 29, 2009 at 6:27 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - August 29, 2009 at 6:35 pm
RE: Christians - by Tiberius - August 29, 2009 at 6:38 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - August 29, 2009 at 6:45 pm
RE: Christians - by Samson - August 29, 2009 at 9:39 pm
RE: Christians - by dry land fish - August 29, 2009 at 10:46 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 5, 2009 at 9:13 pm
RE: Christians - by Kyuuketsuki - September 6, 2009 at 8:05 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 6, 2009 at 12:18 pm
RE: Christians - by Dotard - September 6, 2009 at 9:33 am
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 12:22 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 12:31 pm
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 6, 2009 at 12:47 pm
RE: Christians - by bozo - September 6, 2009 at 1:03 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 1:00 pm
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 6, 2009 at 11:23 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 7, 2009 at 6:54 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 7, 2009 at 9:58 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 8, 2009 at 9:34 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 1:05 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 6, 2009 at 6:37 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 6, 2009 at 10:09 pm
RE: Christians - by Kyuuketsuki - September 7, 2009 at 8:13 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 11:57 pm
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 7, 2009 at 12:13 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 7, 2009 at 3:07 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 7, 2009 at 4:40 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 7, 2009 at 9:22 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 7, 2009 at 7:31 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 7, 2009 at 7:52 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 7, 2009 at 7:59 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 7, 2009 at 8:52 am
RE: Christians - by Kyuuketsuki - September 7, 2009 at 3:24 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 7, 2009 at 3:28 pm
RE: Christians - by Kyuuketsuki - September 7, 2009 at 3:52 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 7, 2009 at 9:01 am
RE: Christians - by Darwinian - September 7, 2009 at 9:33 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 7, 2009 at 9:35 pm
RE: Christians - by Darwinian - September 8, 2009 at 2:03 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 8, 2009 at 9:48 pm
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 9, 2009 at 4:41 am
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 9, 2009 at 5:02 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 10, 2009 at 10:59 am
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 10, 2009 at 11:13 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 8, 2009 at 2:37 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 8, 2009 at 8:57 am
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 8, 2009 at 12:10 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 8, 2009 at 11:37 pm
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 10, 2009 at 10:49 am
RE: Christians - by Kyuuketsuki - September 10, 2009 at 4:03 pm
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 9, 2009 at 12:27 am
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 10, 2009 at 10:54 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 10, 2009 at 11:21 am
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 10, 2009 at 11:39 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 10, 2009 at 3:33 pm
RE: Christians - by Eilonnwy - September 10, 2009 at 3:40 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 10, 2009 at 4:15 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 12, 2009 at 10:25 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 14, 2009 at 11:08 pm
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 14, 2009 at 11:29 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 14, 2009 at 11:59 pm
RE: Christians - by Eilonnwy - September 10, 2009 at 12:16 pm
RE: Christians - by Darwinian - September 10, 2009 at 12:39 pm
RE: Christians - by Eilonnwy - September 10, 2009 at 12:45 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 10, 2009 at 6:44 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 10, 2009 at 11:35 am
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 10, 2009 at 12:43 pm
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 10, 2009 at 3:42 pm
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 10, 2009 at 4:08 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 10, 2009 at 12:46 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 10, 2009 at 12:53 pm
RE: Christians - by Eilonnwy - September 10, 2009 at 1:01 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 10, 2009 at 1:00 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 10, 2009 at 4:05 pm
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 10, 2009 at 8:33 pm
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 11, 2009 at 11:13 pm
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 12, 2009 at 1:45 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 15, 2009 at 12:01 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 15, 2009 at 12:45 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 15, 2009 at 1:31 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 15, 2009 at 2:07 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 15, 2009 at 2:34 am
RE: Christians - by leo-rcc - September 15, 2009 at 4:18 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 15, 2009 at 4:34 am
RE: Christians - by Eilonnwy - September 15, 2009 at 8:57 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 15, 2009 at 9:25 am
RE: Christians - by downbeatplumb - September 15, 2009 at 2:15 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 12, 2009 at 5:22 am
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 11, 2009 at 11:33 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 12, 2009 at 12:38 am
RE: Christians - by downbeatplumb - September 12, 2009 at 9:09 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 14, 2009 at 11:45 pm
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 14, 2009 at 11:54 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 15, 2009 at 12:45 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 15, 2009 at 1:29 am
RE: Christians - by Lifebepraised - September 15, 2009 at 12:58 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 15, 2009 at 1:02 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 15, 2009 at 1:04 am
RE: Christians - by ecolox - September 15, 2009 at 1:50 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 15, 2009 at 1:48 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 15, 2009 at 2:05 am
RE: Christians - by padraic - September 15, 2009 at 6:27 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 15, 2009 at 6:42 am
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 15, 2009 at 1:53 pm
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 15, 2009 at 5:12 pm
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 15, 2009 at 10:58 pm
RE: Christians - by Eilonnwy - September 16, 2009 at 9:46 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 15, 2009 at 9:06 am
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 15, 2009 at 1:39 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 15, 2009 at 2:00 pm
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 15, 2009 at 2:11 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 15, 2009 at 2:40 pm
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 15, 2009 at 2:42 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 15, 2009 at 2:44 pm
RE: Christians - by Tiberius - September 15, 2009 at 3:08 pm
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 15, 2009 at 3:09 pm
RE: Christians - by dry land fish - September 15, 2009 at 10:12 pm
RE: Christians - by downbeatplumb - September 16, 2009 at 10:22 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 16, 2009 at 9:49 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 16, 2009 at 10:25 am
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 16, 2009 at 1:15 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 16, 2009 at 1:33 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 16, 2009 at 2:21 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 16, 2009 at 2:26 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 16, 2009 at 3:22 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 16, 2009 at 3:31 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 16, 2009 at 4:41 pm
RE: Christians - by Rhizomorph13 - September 16, 2009 at 4:43 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 16, 2009 at 5:07 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 16, 2009 at 5:19 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 16, 2009 at 5:40 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 16, 2009 at 9:25 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 17, 2009 at 2:40 am
RE: Christians - by dry land fish - September 17, 2009 at 4:29 pm
RE: Christians - by chatpilot - September 17, 2009 at 4:49 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 17, 2009 at 5:11 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 17, 2009 at 6:15 pm
RE: Christians - by Rhizomorph13 - September 17, 2009 at 6:21 pm
RE: Christians - by dry land fish - September 17, 2009 at 6:45 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 17, 2009 at 6:41 pm
RE: Christians - by Rhizomorph13 - September 17, 2009 at 6:44 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 17, 2009 at 6:45 pm
RE: Christians - by chatpilot - September 18, 2009 at 12:18 am
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 18, 2009 at 6:59 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 18, 2009 at 3:37 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 18, 2009 at 4:39 pm
RE: Christians - by fr0d0 - September 18, 2009 at 4:00 am
RE: Christians - by chatpilot - September 18, 2009 at 2:24 pm
RE: Christians - by Violet - September 18, 2009 at 2:26 pm
RE: Christians - by Rhizomorph13 - September 18, 2009 at 5:21 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 18, 2009 at 5:26 pm
RE: Christians - by Rhizomorph13 - September 18, 2009 at 5:36 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 18, 2009 at 5:46 pm
RE: Christians - by Rhizomorph13 - September 18, 2009 at 5:58 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 18, 2009 at 6:02 pm
RE: Christians - by chatpilot - September 18, 2009 at 6:28 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 18, 2009 at 11:55 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 19, 2009 at 1:07 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 19, 2009 at 2:11 am
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 19, 2009 at 5:35 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 19, 2009 at 2:33 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 19, 2009 at 3:35 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 19, 2009 at 3:51 am
RE: Christians - by padraic - September 19, 2009 at 5:21 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 19, 2009 at 5:35 am
RE: Christians - by padraic - September 19, 2009 at 7:29 am
RE: Christians - by Giff - September 19, 2009 at 7:48 am
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 19, 2009 at 8:05 am
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 19, 2009 at 8:44 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 19, 2009 at 8:05 am
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 19, 2009 at 8:51 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 19, 2009 at 4:45 pm
RE: Christians - by chatpilot - September 19, 2009 at 5:32 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 19, 2009 at 5:46 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 19, 2009 at 6:41 pm
RE: Christians - by Ace Otana - September 19, 2009 at 7:21 pm
RE: Christians - by chatpilot - September 20, 2009 at 1:03 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 20, 2009 at 1:38 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 20, 2009 at 11:50 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 20, 2009 at 12:04 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 20, 2009 at 12:29 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 20, 2009 at 12:48 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 20, 2009 at 12:33 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 20, 2009 at 12:55 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 21, 2009 at 2:07 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 21, 2009 at 2:55 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 27, 2009 at 7:07 am
RE: Christians - by Darwinian - September 27, 2009 at 7:23 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 27, 2009 at 7:25 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 27, 2009 at 7:57 am
RE: Christians - by theVOID - September 27, 2009 at 7:59 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 27, 2009 at 6:58 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 27, 2009 at 6:59 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 28, 2009 at 3:33 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 28, 2009 at 9:36 am
RE: Christians - by solarwave - September 28, 2009 at 11:16 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 28, 2009 at 11:46 am
RE: Christians - by solarwave - September 28, 2009 at 12:02 pm
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 28, 2009 at 12:05 pm
RE: Christians - by Edwardo Piet - September 28, 2009 at 9:10 pm
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 29, 2009 at 5:12 am
RE: Christians - by Retorth - September 29, 2009 at 6:45 am
RE: Christians - by Eilonnwy - September 29, 2009 at 8:48 am
RE: Christians - by Ryft - September 29, 2009 at 3:01 pm

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