(September 11, 2012 at 4:49 pm)Undeceived Wrote: Where else might atheists get this standard of morality?Um...moral philosophers (the main source of ethics since socrates), any teleological end they choose, a utopian ideal, intuition, general reasoning and many other places. The church is by no accounts the only possible place for morality, perhaps not even an independent one.
Quote:From society, perhaps, which borrows almost exclusively from Christianity. Sure you can abide by Christianity's morals, and many atheists do. But by definition of evolution you have no objective morals. You are simply imitating culture to be accepted by culture.Completely different to christianity, right? which didn't in any way adopt its entire code of ethics from the Torah, Zoroastrianism, Orphism and Aristotle?
Quote: In the process, you validate Christian ethics as the most acceptable, tossing out one or two (such as adultery, abortion) to suit your own personal whims. Perhaps by 'having morals' you mean being generally good to other human beings. Yet according to evolution there is no good, just survival. Your 'good' is done out of self-interest. If you truly were altruistic, you'd contradict survival of the fittest. Why should anyone be impressed you can imitate out of self-interest? A monkey can do that.- They arent christian ethics.
- Not whims, reasons and perspectives, you're just making a biased argument now without any actual reason to suppose that atheists act on whim
- 'According to evolution', this is not the theory of everything for an atheist, supervenience can very simply explain away the idea of 'nothing but survival'
- You assume that rejecting god means everything is done out of self-interest, yet this is untrue. Furthermore, as this follows from the evolutionary you just defiled so horrendously, you would also be according to nothing but self-interest (represented primarily by a desire for heaven and unnecessary emotional comfort).
- You assume moral action is imitation, not true, AGAIN.
Quote: Moral atheism is an oxymoron unless the atheist defines a moral his own way. In such a case, what good is a subjective moral? Why should anyone be impressed that you can create your own idea of right and wrong? A monkey can do that too. Without altruism, ethics is just an act.
This is perhaps one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. Firstly, there is nothing oxymoronic about 'moral atheism', nor anything even remotely contradictory so you might want to go and revise exactly what is meant by these terms.
You're assuming that atheism and morals, when combined, only advocate subjective morality, which is again incorrect. Creating your own idea of morals is far superior to being completely and ignorantly accepting of a false morality arbitrated by an unprovable thing. Moral laws require constant revision and if you think you can live morally simply because of a belief in god or some ancient code of ethics then you're being dogmatic. In case you hadn't noticed, we are primates too and your assumption that altruism is impossible for atheists is (1) personally insulting, and (2) completely incorrect.
Religion is an attempt to answer the philosophical questions of the unphilosophical man.