RE: Neo-Nazis Fly Under Radar
October 18, 2012 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: October 18, 2012 at 7:48 pm by Something completely different.)
(October 18, 2012 at 6:57 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Way to totally miss my point. I understand that forbidding anti-democratic parties from elections will result in those specific parties not gaining power. I never said any different.
please understand that english is not my mothertounge and that misunderstandings will occure. I will of course appologise and clarify myself if you should feel accused of saying something wich you didn`t say
(October 18, 2012 at 6:57 pm)Tiberius Wrote: However, it doesn't solve the bigger problem, which is where such parties emerge from already elected parties, whether that emergence is planned or not. The Nazi's rose to power democratically; they never had any public policy which was inherently undemocratic prior to taking office.
it always amazes me how little people outside of germany seem to know about national socialism or fashism in general.
The "Weimar Republik" the German republic which existed between 1918 and 1933, was notoriously unstable. In fact, it is called Weimar republic because there were so many attemptet coup`d ètat`s and streetfights between the political parties, that the city of Berlin was considered to be to unsafe to be germans capital - so the capital and parlament were moved to the city of Weimar.
The notorious braunshirts aswell as communist movements would ravage through all german streets in all german cities, mercilessly beating up and murdering opposition figures. The Weimar republic was more about wich parties militia could violently inforce it`s views, than about votes.
In fact before Hitler took over power his party had lost votes and he was forced to join a coalition with the conservatives, where he than seized the opertunity to gain power through a coup`d ètat.
I`ll give you a small example with one of Hitlers election speeches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sKyAmzeDVI
(October 18, 2012 at 6:57 pm)Tiberius Wrote: For any party to announce such a position would be political suicide. Rather, they gained the majority in government, and then systematically went around destroying their remaining political enemies (blaming the Reichstag fire on communists, forcing other parties to endorse Hitler, and murdering them in the Night of the Long Knives).
Hitler gained power through the Reichstag fire and then used his newly gained goverment power to brutaly crush the opposition. But as I showed you before, he was "intolerant" of democracy eaven before he came to power.
That is very importent to understand! Because otherwise one could say "the germans were tricked into national socialism" - wich wouldn`t be true. Those who voted Hitler were well aware that they were voting a dictatorship.
To publicly claime democracy isn`t working might sound stupid to you.
But in the 1920s and 1930s it didn`t sound that stupid at all, after a catastrophic world war and especialy after a finacial crisis a lot of people believed that democracy and maybe eaven capitalism doesn`t work.
eaven today you will find people who claim that democracy has failed - but they are simply given less attention, live next to Tienamen square or are bombed with drones.
(October 18, 2012 at 6:57 pm)Tiberius Wrote: In short, you cannot easily predict whether a party is going to do this or not. If the Republican party gained a majority in Congress, and then they all decided to pass legislation that effectively made them the only party that could get power, you'd have the same thing.
Do you realy believe that in a modern democracy, with so many institutions of governance: Head of state, head of goverment, leader of opposition, leader of parlamentary majority, high court of justice, executive and more... a democracy will simply be undone by a party wich "simply posed as democraticly legitimate".
I can say from my countries history that since we have been a democracy, every single chancelor, except for two (Willy Brandt, Ludwig Erhard) lost power because they had overstept their limits of power.
I am not a friend of conspiracy theories and I think neighter are you, so I dought that any party would be capable of staging a conspiracy of posing as "democratic" to gain power, in order to then turn totalitarian.
I dont just think in theoretical but also in logistical terms.