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God's Value Nonexistent?
#13
RE: God's Value Nonexistent?
(October 19, 2012 at 10:58 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Being original existence, whatever he is, he would be what he is. He eternal is, and this implies he is a necessary being, because whatever existence is, is what it had to be. Ultimate existence is what must be as opposed to non-existence or very small insignificant existence. Non-existence cannot be. Ultimate power is the default existence, it's the necessary existence. Ultimate Value is the default existence.

Why can't we derive value from ourselves? We can, but it needs to have a basis and origin with eternal ultimate objective reality. The reason is, is because all lesser existence, has been created from the ultimate existence and cannot exist on it's own or have no relationship with ultimate reality. That being the case of how things are, it also the case, it must be how things must be.

This is why when a lot of people doubt God, they automatically begin to doubt objective morality, objective value, objective praise, etc...Because God is the foundation of the perception. As they do have an eternal basis, it also turns out it is impossible for them to exist without an eternal basis as that is a property of their existence.
This is not an answer to the OP questions. It's a string of gibberish that vaguely resembles circular reasoning, without the reasoning.

(October 19, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Only an eternal being can have meaning, mortal humans can not unless they draw that meaning from God. The eternal God is the only One who has the power and presence to keep his meaning unchanging so all can have the same meaning to draw from and live by.
This also doesn't answer the Op's questions, it simply asserts that he does have meaning, which totally avoids the questions, which were:

Where does God get value? Neither of you answered this at all.

Where does he get meaning? If it gets it from himself, how? Same

How is it that he can get meaning from himself but we can't get meaning from ourselves? Again, unanswered.

I do see an attempt to answer, but in both cases it just boils down to a pointless statement that God has meaning because he is eternal. How? Why? What is it about eternalness that causes meaning? Since according to Christian doctrine, our souls are also eternal, does that make human souls have the same meanings as gods, since we have the same eternalness? Note that you said nothing about his goodness or omnipotence, both of you just focused on the eternal thing.

So, please do elaborate!
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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Messages In This Thread
God's Value Nonexistent? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - October 19, 2012 at 8:06 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 19, 2012 at 8:08 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - October 19, 2012 at 8:12 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 19, 2012 at 8:19 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 19, 2012 at 10:58 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 20, 2012 at 1:34 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 20, 2012 at 3:49 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 20, 2012 at 4:36 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 20, 2012 at 2:51 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Godschild - October 19, 2012 at 11:16 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 19, 2012 at 11:55 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - October 20, 2012 at 12:03 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Cato - October 20, 2012 at 3:07 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 20, 2012 at 4:03 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Cyberman - October 20, 2012 at 1:23 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - October 20, 2012 at 3:06 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Cyberman - October 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 4:30 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by downbeatplumb - October 20, 2012 at 4:45 am
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:04 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:06 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:11 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:31 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:33 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:43 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:49 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 20, 2012 at 3:54 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 20, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:32 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 20, 2012 at 5:13 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 4:45 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Drich - October 21, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 21, 2012 at 3:40 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Drich - October 21, 2012 at 11:11 pm
RE: God's Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 21, 2012 at 11:35 pm

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