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For good people to do bad things...
RE: For good people to do bad things...
(September 27, 2009 at 6:43 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: As I said, if Jesus supported the Old Testament as a whole ...

I already responded to the "Jesus supported the Old Testament" question. Please incorporate my response within your reply, such that it reflects the point rather than ignores it.

(September 27, 2009 at 6:43 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: I thought it was well-known that Christians who bomb abortion clinics aren't doing it for non-religious reasons. The whole thing about the sanctity of life is more common in religion than in secularism, right?

I already addressed this point (Msg. #47; emphasis added): "I know they bomb abortion clinics because of their beliefs. My point is that those beliefs are not Christian beliefs because that religion 'not only does not condone such acts but in fact condemns it.' Pro-life beliefs are consistent with Christianity, but violence against abortion providers does not follow from pro-life beliefs. Rather, it follows from a mandate for violence that goes far beyond simply being against abortion. Murderous violence and terrorist activity follows from their beliefs, certainly—but those beliefs are not Christian beliefs. Christianity neither commands nor condones such appalling acts; more than this, it contradicts them quite diametrically."

(September 27, 2009 at 6:43 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Well, any time when part of the Bible (I never said specifically NT) that is unpleasant is chosen to be metaphorical, when it could just as easily be read literally, is cherry-picking.

First, the issue does not pivot on some Old Testament passage being metaphorical versus literal. Second, some parts of the Old Testament—and the Scriptures overall—are explicitly metaphorical; for example, the prophetic vision of the beasts in the 7th chapter of Daniel, which would be incoherent to take as literal, as though Daniel 7:1 did not exist. And finally, as already said, "if you cannot find even the hint of a 'cherry-pick' example from the New Testament," that is, if you cannot find examples anywhere but in the Jewish Tanakh, "that ought to tell you something about the state of it being Christian."

(September 27, 2009 at 6:43 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: [Are you saying that no Christians cherry-pick?]

That is not even close to what I said.
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Messages In This Thread
For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 5, 2009 at 2:35 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 5, 2009 at 2:39 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 5, 2009 at 2:41 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 5, 2009 at 2:45 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Tiberius - September 5, 2009 at 2:49 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 5, 2009 at 5:12 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 5, 2009 at 2:49 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Samson - September 5, 2009 at 3:18 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 5, 2009 at 5:17 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Minimalist - September 5, 2009 at 5:23 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by bozo - September 5, 2009 at 7:19 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by padraic - September 5, 2009 at 7:58 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 5, 2009 at 8:18 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 5, 2009 at 9:28 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 5, 2009 at 9:34 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 6, 2009 at 12:01 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by downbeatplumb - September 6, 2009 at 6:04 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by amw79 - September 5, 2009 at 9:54 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by padraic - September 6, 2009 at 12:37 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 6, 2009 at 4:33 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 6:12 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 6, 2009 at 6:18 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by downbeatplumb - September 6, 2009 at 6:33 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 6:25 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 6, 2009 at 6:28 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by downbeatplumb - September 6, 2009 at 6:38 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 9:24 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 6, 2009 at 8:22 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 6:33 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 9:18 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 6, 2009 at 7:49 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 9:22 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 6, 2009 at 9:30 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 6, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 12:20 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 6, 2009 at 12:53 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 6, 2009 at 1:10 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 3:03 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 7, 2009 at 10:21 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 8, 2009 at 3:12 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by leo-rcc - September 8, 2009 at 4:35 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 8, 2009 at 5:38 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by downbeatplumb - September 6, 2009 at 1:15 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 1:00 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 6, 2009 at 1:11 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Darwinian - September 6, 2009 at 3:09 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 3:31 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 6, 2009 at 4:27 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 6, 2009 at 5:06 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 18, 2009 at 11:21 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 6, 2009 at 7:30 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 7, 2009 at 1:48 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 7, 2009 at 3:19 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 7, 2009 at 3:22 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 7, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 7, 2009 at 3:30 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 7, 2009 at 3:49 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 8, 2009 at 2:33 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by padraic - September 7, 2009 at 6:16 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by downbeatplumb - September 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 7, 2009 at 2:57 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 8, 2009 at 2:35 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 8, 2009 at 4:52 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 8, 2009 at 7:57 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Secularone - September 8, 2009 at 8:10 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2009 at 4:15 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by downbeatplumb - September 9, 2009 at 2:17 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2009 at 2:30 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 9, 2009 at 10:00 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 10, 2009 at 3:23 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 10, 2009 at 4:27 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 10, 2009 at 5:51 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 10, 2009 at 6:24 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Tiberius - September 9, 2009 at 2:38 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2009 at 3:04 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 9, 2009 at 2:39 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 9, 2009 at 3:07 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 9, 2009 at 3:12 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2009 at 3:26 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by theblindferrengi - September 9, 2009 at 3:15 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Rhizomorph13 - September 9, 2009 at 3:18 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 9, 2009 at 3:20 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 9, 2009 at 3:27 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2009 at 3:42 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Rhizomorph13 - September 9, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by downbeatplumb - September 9, 2009 at 4:51 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Tiberius - September 9, 2009 at 5:00 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2009 at 5:52 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Rhizomorph13 - September 9, 2009 at 8:49 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 9, 2009 at 10:53 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 9, 2009 at 10:56 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 10, 2009 at 3:28 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 10, 2009 at 12:22 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 10, 2009 at 5:16 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 10, 2009 at 5:32 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 10, 2009 at 5:42 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 10, 2009 at 6:30 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Kyuuketsuki - September 10, 2009 at 5:49 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 10, 2009 at 6:29 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 10, 2009 at 6:39 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 19, 2009 at 9:58 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 19, 2009 at 12:34 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 19, 2009 at 2:20 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 20, 2009 at 8:48 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 20, 2009 at 11:25 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 20, 2009 at 12:16 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Rhizomorph13 - September 20, 2009 at 1:10 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 20, 2009 at 1:26 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Eilonnwy - September 20, 2009 at 1:35 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Rhizomorph13 - September 20, 2009 at 1:32 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 20, 2009 at 1:56 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Rhizomorph13 - September 20, 2009 at 2:03 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 20, 2009 at 2:28 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Rhizomorph13 - September 20, 2009 at 3:03 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 20, 2009 at 3:12 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Eilonnwy - September 21, 2009 at 9:34 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 20, 2009 at 6:08 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 21, 2009 at 2:18 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 21, 2009 at 5:09 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 21, 2009 at 2:46 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 21, 2009 at 4:58 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 21, 2009 at 3:05 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by fr0d0 - September 21, 2009 at 5:22 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 21, 2009 at 5:57 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Eilonnwy - September 21, 2009 at 6:11 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 21, 2009 at 6:13 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 23, 2009 at 1:32 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 23, 2009 at 10:57 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 26, 2009 at 11:12 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 26, 2009 at 11:20 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 27, 2009 at 12:33 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 27, 2009 at 6:43 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by infidel666 - September 27, 2009 at 1:23 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Retorth - September 27, 2009 at 1:25 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by padraic - September 27, 2009 at 2:30 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 27, 2009 at 5:40 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Dotard - September 27, 2009 at 10:30 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 27, 2009 at 6:52 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 27, 2009 at 6:57 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 27, 2009 at 7:30 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 27, 2009 at 7:48 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 28, 2009 at 2:18 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Edwardo Piet - September 28, 2009 at 10:16 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by padraic - September 27, 2009 at 7:41 pm
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by theVOID - September 28, 2009 at 2:47 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 28, 2009 at 3:19 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Violet - September 28, 2009 at 3:38 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 28, 2009 at 3:48 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by theVOID - September 28, 2009 at 3:53 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by theVOID - September 28, 2009 at 3:41 am
RE: For good people to do bad things... - by Ryft - September 29, 2009 at 4:53 am

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