RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
November 8, 2008 at 2:40 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2008 at 2:44 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 8, 2008 at 2:11 pm)Daystar Wrote:Well fine, I have no problem of that. If you mean religion in that sense then we are both religious. Its just you have said that you are not religious, you just believe in the God of the bible, so if you're going to use religious in that sense I'm certainly not religious either. And if bible-based belief in God like yourself is not religious and not a religion in the sense a creed, then atheism isn't either.(November 8, 2008 at 11:49 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: If the definition of religion is a belief system. Then everyone is religious including you.
Yes. Being aware of that helps prevent one from closing ones mind to any possibility. It prevents one from getting bogged down by what they believe or think they know. Open mindedness.
(November 8, 2008 at 11:49 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Also if God can also be natural and not supernatural, he has to obey natural laws, so natural laws are above him. So why call him God?
Quote:A god can be natural or supernatural, not just God. A god is anything that is considered as mighty or is venerated. As for God, the creator, Jehovah of the Bible, he created what you call natural laws. The only reason to call him God is that you believe he is your God or in reference to someone elses position.Yes but if a god or God is not supernatural then he is not beyond natural laws. Which means he cannot perform miracles, he is not outside the universe, he cannot create the universe and he cannot create natural laws. He lives within the universe and has to obey it, he had to come about though it so he had to develop/evolve some way. So he's a superbeing not a god/God.
God isn't your god, just as Dagon isn't my god, but they are gods in the sense of being gods to other people.
Oh and of course by "your God" I don't mean literally a God that belongs to you I just mean the God that you believe in. Or your [/i]interpretation[/i] of the God that you believe in.
(November 8, 2008 at 11:49 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: The point is that the variations of Christianity all have faith. The variations of Atheism do not have faith. Thats why they're not religious.
Quote:Christians have faith in their God, Atheists have faith in science.Not if by faith you mean blind faith rather than understanding. There is evidence for the truths of science. There is not evidence for the truths of the christian God so you have to have faith rather than understanding in order to believe in the christian God, or any other supernatural 'God'. If you don't mean BLIND faith when you say faith, then thats understanding/knowledge/trust or even belief, in my eyes at least. I wouldn't call it faith because when people say they "have faith" or others "have faith" they are so often talking about religious, irrational and blind faith.
(November 8, 2008 at 11:49 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Perhaps 100% 'gnostic' strong atheists have at least some faith because they can't KNOW there is not a God.
Quote:Actually, I have noticed this distinction only here, is it new? I didn't realize that you all had finally gotten around to doing the math. Good job!Not precise math just my own understanding and estimated probability.
My, well, I guess you could call philosophy on this, is that if you think you 100% know anything when you have any less than 100% reason to believe that you know something 100%, you must have at least SOME faith, however small that is. But if you are probably on the correct side of probability, so long as you understand that you could always be wrong, then you don't have faith at all. Probably.