Xenophobia?

[Tiberius]

You don't think so? If we're talking about immigrants who come to your country - become citizens, find work, or don't....I can't imagine what the problem might be with a citizen availing themselves of the services a government provides.

The problem isn't with immigrants who become citizens or find work. It's with those who don't. I thought I made that clear.

Neither do I (think it's fair) - and? Where does that lead?

Not sure what you mean? It's not fair; it should be stopped.

Here you have to at least have a ss number. Of course you can always defraud the system - but criminals do criminal things, amiright? I'm assuming that the services you're talking about don't have those sorts of checks and/or there is no concept of "defrauding the system". All of this also assumes that said immigrant did not become a citizen, of course, because if they did - i don't see the problem.

When I go to the hospital, I usually just have to give my home address, and that is it. I don't believe there are any further checks. I might be mistaken though, so if someone has any other information on this I'd be happy to correct myself.

There is a concept of defrauding the system. If I'm not entitled to benefits, but I still claim them, that's fraud. Likewise, if I go to an NHS hospital but I'm not entitled to free healthcare, I'm defrauding the system.

Now, there are some things here that we don't really run checks for - but simultaneously aren't free services to anybody anyway. Like, say, a sugarcane worker that happens to be a migrant and/or undocumented "alien" gets dropped at the ER door by a crew leader with a rattlesnake bite. They'll go ahead and treat him anyway (I suppose because the alternative is to let him possibly die at the ER steps).

Accidents and emergencies are a wholly different matter IMO. No good person is going to ignore someone who is in need of medical attention but doesn't have insurance / isn't covered by free healthcare. Exceptions can be made. However, one should not exploit those exceptions to the extent that they become fraudulent.

I'm skeptical Tibs. I think that they probably exist very much in articles (like they did here - until they didn't), but I don't know how much water that the idea holds outside the arena of influencing public opinion. Who knows, I could be dead wrong, but previous experience with the notion of "wellfare queens" has left a horrible taste of dishonesty (not, mind you, on your part - but on the part of those who peddle the tales) in my mouth. We could trade stories all day, of course. I have a buddy who stayed on unemployment for the max allowable timeframe because he could not find a job that could support his family (after losing a job that could) - so it made very little sense for him to work at McDonalds to make an ideological point. At some point, I can't remember how long into unemployment it was, he just stopped looking. There was nothing there, nothing was going to materialize, he knew it, everybody knew it, and he couldn't aford the gas he spent looking anymore anyway. His choice was to continue cashing his "Obama-Money" (my friend qualifies for just about every negative stereotypical epitaph you could hurl at him btw - wears them all like a badge of pride) or to lose that check in return for a minimum wage job that simply could not shelter or feed his family. He made the smart decision, and stayed on the dole. Is he a welfare king?

I think the fact that these people are open about it in newspapers demonstrates there is a problem in this country. I'm not saying every person on welfare is abusing the system; I'm not saying the problem is even that large, but it is a problem and to deny it despite all the evidence (not saying you are; being skeptical is fine) is silly.

If your friend is taking the minimum amount of welfare that he needs to survive, he isn't a welfare king in my opinion. Welfare kings/queens abuse the system to their own financial gain. I'm talking about people who continue to use disability benefits despite the fact that they are now perfectly healthy. Stuff like that.

There was another story I read the other day, where a couple earned £50,000 a year in benefits because the husband was on disability (he suffers from headaches once every few weeks apparently), and the wife had become a registered carer for him (despite the fact that he can look after himself for 99% of the time). She still earned her unemployment benefits, child benefits, etc. Those people are welfare Kings/Queens.

My wife and I get WIC, foodstamps, free healthcare for our kids, we both pay about 10% costs on some medical this and that's ourselves - and we own our own respective businesses. Are we welfare royalty?

Are you exploiting government welfare and receiving more than you should be receiving? Do you actively look for more ways to get more benefits? If so, then yes you are. I highly doubt you are doing that; you seem like an honest guy to me.

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And how exactly will they steal, no, sorry, take that job, if the "true" citizen is better or equally qualified than the immigrant?

In a perfect society, the better qualified person will get the job. Unfortunately, for various reasons this does not happen in the real world.

Here is a legitimate source (The Times is a very respected and influential newspaper in the UK). http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/polit...694568.ece