Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: February 3, 2025, 7:46 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Pascal's Wager (the new version)
#48
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version)
Let's try to polish this turd and see what happens.

Pascal's Wager presents an argument that is oversimplified to the point of uselessness.

Let's look at it from an Expected Value (EV) point of view. The EV of accepting could be expressed like this:

EV = (P(g) * V(reward)) + ((1 - P(g)) * (-V(l))

where

P(g) = the probability that god exists
V(reward) = value of the reward earned from belief
V(l) = cost of being wrong, or the value of living one's life without incorrect belief.

(i.e. P(g) of the time, we win V(reward), otherwise we lose V(l))

As Pascal asserts that if one wagers and there is no god, one has lost nothing (e.g. V(l) is always zero, and the equation can be simplified to P(g) * V(reward). Pascal, in my view, is wrong to assert that.

As we have discussed ad nauseum in numerous threads here, Pascal ignores other relevant factors (possibly a result of presupposing that there's only one god, and it's his). The probability of winning the wager is NOT simply the probability that there is a god - presumably, one much choose the correct god, one's belief must be sufficiently sincere, and one must worship correctly:

EV = (F(ce) * V(reward)) + ((1 - F(ce)) * (-V(l))

F(ce) is "Cthulhu's Equation" -

F(ce) = P(a) * ( 1 / N ) * P(s) * P(p)

P(a) = the probability that any god exists.
N = the number of possible gods
P(s) = the probability that one's belief is sufficiently sincere to merit reward
P(p) = the "piety factor" - the probability that one's worship is sufficiently pious to merit reward

Many Christians and Muslims would probably argue that V(reward) = infinity, V(l) = 0, P(a) = 1.0, N = 1, P(s) = 1.0, and P(p) = 1.0. YMMV.

Where's my Nobel Prize?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 3:45 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 3:52 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 4:03 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 4:07 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 4:16 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - February 27, 2013 at 4:21 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - February 27, 2013 at 4:10 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 4:21 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 4:31 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 4:38 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 4:44 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 7:15 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 7:41 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 7:46 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Zen Badger - February 27, 2013 at 8:15 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 8:21 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by downbeatplumb - February 27, 2013 at 1:51 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Confused Ape - February 27, 2013 at 8:25 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - February 27, 2013 at 4:54 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 5:04 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - February 27, 2013 at 5:15 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 5:37 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by pocaracas - February 27, 2013 at 5:48 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 6:12 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by pocaracas - February 27, 2013 at 6:25 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Zen Badger - February 27, 2013 at 6:47 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - February 27, 2013 at 6:48 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by pocaracas - February 27, 2013 at 7:00 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - February 27, 2013 at 7:00 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - February 27, 2013 at 7:02 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - February 27, 2013 at 7:02 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by genkaus - February 27, 2013 at 8:36 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 27, 2013 at 8:44 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by genkaus - February 27, 2013 at 9:53 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by LastPoet - February 27, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by pocaracas - February 27, 2013 at 9:54 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - February 27, 2013 at 10:58 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - February 27, 2013 at 11:16 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 11:28 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Mister Agenda - February 27, 2013 at 1:03 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Question Mark - February 27, 2013 at 1:03 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Jackalope - February 27, 2013 at 1:07 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - February 27, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Psykhronic - February 27, 2013 at 1:07 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Tiberius - February 27, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Faith No More - February 27, 2013 at 1:38 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Jackalope - February 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 28, 2013 at 3:43 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Esquilax - February 28, 2013 at 4:14 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Simon Moon - March 2, 2013 at 1:17 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Mister Agenda - March 4, 2013 at 4:53 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cyberman - March 4, 2013 at 5:10 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - February 27, 2013 at 3:25 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Jackalope - February 28, 2013 at 4:03 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - February 28, 2013 at 4:10 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by pocaracas - February 28, 2013 at 6:31 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by pocaracas - March 5, 2013 at 6:57 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Zen Badger - February 28, 2013 at 6:41 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - March 1, 2013 at 12:01 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Question Mark - March 1, 2013 at 12:08 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - February 28, 2013 at 5:03 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - February 28, 2013 at 5:30 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - February 28, 2013 at 6:39 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - February 28, 2013 at 6:42 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Norfolk And Chance - February 28, 2013 at 12:14 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cyberman - March 1, 2013 at 12:36 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Minimalist - March 1, 2013 at 12:50 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - March 1, 2013 at 1:04 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cyberman - March 1, 2013 at 1:08 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - March 1, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Zen Badger - March 1, 2013 at 3:44 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cyberman - March 1, 2013 at 1:31 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - March 1, 2013 at 5:50 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cato - March 2, 2013 at 2:52 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by genkaus - March 2, 2013 at 2:19 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - March 2, 2013 at 4:28 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cinjin - March 2, 2013 at 4:59 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by jots - March 2, 2013 at 6:14 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by genkaus - March 2, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by genkaus - March 2, 2013 at 2:56 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Mister Agenda - March 4, 2013 at 5:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - March 2, 2013 at 2:35 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - March 2, 2013 at 5:49 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - March 2, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Question Mark - March 2, 2013 at 1:03 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by FallentoReason - March 2, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Question Mark - March 2, 2013 at 10:20 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Kayenneh - March 2, 2013 at 2:15 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - March 2, 2013 at 2:46 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - March 3, 2013 at 3:30 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - March 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - March 3, 2013 at 2:23 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Confused Ape - March 4, 2013 at 9:06 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by MysticKnight - March 3, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Question Mark - March 3, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by MysticKnight - March 3, 2013 at 12:23 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by CapnAwesome - March 3, 2013 at 1:34 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cyberman - March 4, 2013 at 3:01 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - March 4, 2013 at 6:08 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by EGross - March 4, 2013 at 7:32 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cyberman - March 4, 2013 at 8:17 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - March 4, 2013 at 4:06 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - March 10, 2013 at 8:29 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Darkstar - March 10, 2013 at 3:53 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by MysticKnight - March 10, 2013 at 3:57 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - March 11, 2013 at 2:07 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - March 11, 2013 at 2:16 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - March 11, 2013 at 3:11 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - March 11, 2013 at 3:36 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - March 11, 2013 at 4:14 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Muslim Scholar - March 11, 2013 at 8:16 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - March 11, 2013 at 11:29 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Cyberman - March 11, 2013 at 12:07 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by pocaracas - March 4, 2013 at 5:52 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by EGross - March 4, 2013 at 11:36 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by EGross - March 5, 2013 at 4:11 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Brian37 - March 5, 2013 at 7:04 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - March 5, 2013 at 11:21 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Creed of Heresy - March 10, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Angrboda - March 11, 2013 at 3:35 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - March 11, 2013 at 8:26 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by Ryantology - March 12, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: Pascal's Wager (the new version) - by KichigaiNeko - March 12, 2013 at 1:27 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Theists: Hitchens Wager chimp3 182 22214 April 28, 2018 at 2:27 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Very short version of the long argument. Mystic 68 12939 September 18, 2017 at 9:38 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Trolley problem: 2035 version JuliaL 11 2826 May 27, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  Pascal's wager GodlessGirl 67 18261 August 10, 2012 at 3:04 am
Last Post: Whateverist



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)