Topless protesters celebrate the popes resignation in Paris

[Mystical]

Who is the "u" you refer to?

I am an ardent protester of all cults.

Are you claiming to be a member of FEMEN?

Nope.

I only described my thoughts on the original posters question, I didn't align myself against you or any other poster.

You put out a generally biased commentary, thus I replied. Duh.

I was not "touting off about Nazism".

Fair enough. You were just making non-sequiter comparison between a violent genocidal campaign, and peaceful protest.
:rolls eyes:

I was putting the behaviour of the women in context, by giving another example of where hateful people thought it acceptable to try to offend/hurt others who are different, and interfere with their fundamental rights.

Again, with as much respect as I can muster: bull fucking shit. Your definition of context is skewed if you're serious here. Which I think you are.

Wikipedia isn't such a great reference, I try to avoid using it, if I can - as anyone can edit it, and so on many topics, (especially divisive ones), it can become a worthless source.
I only use it if it gives "proper" references to support its article.
You don't actually link any to any of the info, further undermining your arguments.

If you take a look, I did give substantiated sources for the quotes. As for the rest: well, it's this strange magical thing called the In-ter-net.
Write that down.

To briefly discuss the accuracy of some of your claims:

Magadlen Laundries

The McAleese report has recently given its findings on the Magdalen laundries. It found the reality is very different to popular perception, thanks to the film of the same name and, er, Wikipedia etc!

- not a single case of sexual abuse (the film suggested this was endemic)

- vast majority of people not subject to corporal punishment (lets not forget that until only a few decades ago, corporal punishment was a normal part of society, including to control school-children).

- many women actually spoke positively of the nuns

- the Irish Government themselves send 25% of the women there, why do they escape criticism?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brenda...-straight/

The film Magdalen Laundries is actually a piece of malicious fiction.

Uhhhhhh... What the fuck dude? Lacking of critical thinking? Really? Please tell me you're referring to yourself--or that would just be a silly baseless petty and misinformed excuse for an assertion. I'm not talking about a film here, I'm talking about real live government inquiries and court commissions. How is it hard to see that women (or anyone for that matter) would have an issue with children being raped?

Here's an actual copy of the report: Ryan [Laffoy] Commission Report

---

Chapter Overview:

Witnesses reported being physically, sexually and emotionally abused, and neglected by religious and lay adults who had responsibility for their care, and by others in the absence of adequate care and supervision. Many of the 216 named settings were the subject of repeated reports of abuse. In excess of 800 individuals were identified as physically and/or sexually abusing the witnesses as children in those settings. Neglect and emotional abuse were often described as endemic within institutions where there was a systemic failure to provide for children’s safety and welfare.

The Conclusions on sexual abuse which are outlined at Paragraph 7.549 were that sexual abuse of boys in Artane by Brothers was a chronic problem. Complaints were not handled properly and the steps taken by the Congregation to avoid scandal and publicity protected perpetrators of abuse. The safety of children was not a priority at any time during the relevant period.

Chapter 14 looks at the career of a serial sexual and physical abuser, given the name of Mr John Brander, who taught children in the primary and secondary school sector in Ireland for 40 years. He was eventually convicted of sexual abuse in the 1980s.
He began his career as a Christian Brother and after three separate incidents of sexual abuse of boys, he was granted dispensation from his vows. This chapter goes on to describe this man’s progress through six different schools where he physically terrorised and sexually abused children in his classroom.

Sexual abuse was a chronic problem. For two thirds of the relevant period there was at least one sexual abuser in the school, for almost one third of the period there were two abusers in the school and at times there were three abusers working in Letterfrack at the same time. Two abusers were present for periods of 14 years each and the Congregation could offer no explanation as to how these Brothers could have remained in the School for so long undetected and unreported. Conclusions on Sexual Abuse in Letterfrack are outlined at Paragraph 8.461 of the Report.

Sexual abuse was reported by approximately half of all the Confidential Committee witnesses. Acute and chronic contact and non-contact sexual abuse was reported, including vaginal and anal rape, molestation and voyeurism in both isolated assaults and on a regular basis over long periods of time. The secret nature of sexual abuse was repeatedly emphasised as facilitating its occurrence. Witnesses reported being sexually abused by religious and lay staff in the schools and institutions and by co-residents and others, including professionals, both within and external to the institutions. They also reported being sexually abused by members of the general public, including volunteer workers, visitors, work placement employers, foster parents, and others who had unsupervised contact with residents in the course of everyday activities. Witnesses reported being sexually abused when they were taken away for excursions, holidays or to work for others. Some witnesses who disclosed sexual abuse were subjected to severe reproach by those who had responsibility for their care and protection. Female witnesses in particular described, at times, being told they were responsible for the sexual abuse they experienced, by both their abuser and those to whom they disclosed abuse.

In general, girls’ schools were not as physically harsh as boys’ schools and there was no persistent problem of sexual abuse in girls’ schools although there was at best naiveté and at worst indifference in the way girls were sent out to foster families. A number of girls did experience sexual abuse at the hands of ‘godfathers’ which they were either unable to report or were disbelieved when they did report it.
There was a high level of emotional abuse in girls’ schools, which was a consistent feature of these institutions.

In particular, the Salthill report deals with a relatively recent allegation of sexual abuse against a Brother who had been transferred from Salthill ‘following a grave indiscretion with one of the boys’ in the early 1960s (Paragraph 12.63). The treatment of a boy who alleged sexual abuse against this Brother some twenty years later by Congregational Authorities was shameful and disturbing.

The extent of sexual abuse in this institution was as serious and disturbing as in Upton. Two religious members of the Rosminian Order and one layman were convicted of sexual abuse of boys in Ferryhouse. Another religious who served in Ferryhouse was convicted of a crime committed elsewhere on a boy who had previously been a resident of Ferryhouse and who was then living in another Rosminian institution. These three religious offenders served in senior positions in Ferryhouse and the layman was a volunteer there for different periods of years between 1968 and 1988.

During almost all of the period covered by the inquiry, there was at least one sexual abuser present in Ferryhouse.


The report into Greenmount contains a detailed analysis of an investigation into allegations of sexual abuse against two Brothers who were on the staff at the time. This matter was dealt with inadequately at the time and one of the Brothers went on to abuse in other schools he was assigned to.

Chapter 13 deals with the final Christian Brothers’ School investigated by the Committee, St Joseph’s School for the Deaf, in Cabra. It was the subject of Eastern Health Board Investigations in the 1980s which revealed disturbing levels of sexual abuse and peer sexual activity amongst boys who were resident there. These documents reveal a persistent failure on the part of school Authorities to protect children from bullying and abuse.

In addition, the documents revealed that physical punishment of these children continued into the mid-1990s and that staff were protected by management when physical abuse was discovered.

Volume II Chapter I looks at the founding and organisation of the Rosminian Order and its involvement in residential care in Ireland. The Rosminians adopted a different approach to the Commission than other Congregations. They sought to understand abuse, in contrast to other Congregations who sought to explain it. They accepted that abuse had occurred in their Institutions, that the Institutions in themselves were abusive and that the Order itself must bear responsibility for what occurred.


The issue of sexual abuse in this institution emerged most strikingly through material that came to the Investigation Committee’s attention following a search by the Order of material in their archive in Rome, which disclosed a considerable number of documents, 68 in all, dating from 1936 to 1968. They dealt with, among other things, 7 sexual abusers who worked in Upton. These documents provided a valuable contemporary account of how sexual abuse was dealt with.

Chapter 5 deals with Lota which was a residential school for boys with special needs run by the Brothers of Charity in Glanmire, Co Cork.

The significant element in the account of Lota was the deeply disturbing accounts of sexual abuse of vulnerable children by religious staff. In addition, the indifference of the Congregational Authorities in addressing the issue facilitated the abuse in Lota for many years. In one case, a Brother who was known by the Congregation to have abused in England and was known to the police there, was brought back to Ireland and assigned a teaching position in Lota, where he worked for over 30 years. This Brother admitted to multiple sexual assaults of boys in the school. The circumstances of his return to Ireland and the handling of allegations against him whilst in Lota are a serious indictment of the Brothers of Charity. The Brothers have admitted that abuse took place but, as in the case of other Orders, they have not accepted Congregational responsibility for it.

Unlike the Christian Brothers and to a lesser extent the Rosminians, the Sisters of Mercy retained almost no records of complaints or allegations against the School, or even any reports of internal inspections or reviews. The Goldenbridge report relies heavily on the oral testimony of witnesses both complainants and ex-staff members.

A high level of physical abuse was perpetrated by Religious and lay staff in Goldenbridge. The method of inflicting punishments and the implements used were cruel and excessive and physical punishment was an immediate response to even minor infractions. Children were in constant fear of beatings and in many cases were beaten for no apparent reason. A feature of this school was a rosary bead industry that was operated from the school. This industry was conducted in a way that imposed impossible standards on children and caused great suffering to many of them. It was a school that was characterised by a regime of extreme drudgery, both in terms of the rosary bead making and the daily workload of the children.

Chapter 8 considers Cappoquin Industrial School, County Waterford which was owned and managed by the Sisters of Mercy. It was certified for 75 boys up to the age of ten. From 1970, it was allowed take girls as well as boys. This institution was identified by the Department of Education Inspector as being particularly neglectful of the children in its care in the 1940s. Children were described as malnourished and underweight. This chapter also deals with Passage West Industrial School Co Cork, in the context of an allegation of sexual abuse against a lay care worker who worked in both Institutions and who was subsequently convicted of abuse of children in Cappoquin.

Chapter 13 deals with St Patrick’s Industrial School which was founded in 1879 and accommodated 186 boys up to the age of 10. A significant feature of this school was the very young ages of the children and the large group of them all being cared for by a small number of nuns. Because they were so young when they were there, witnesses tended to remember specific episodes rather than have overall memories of St Patrick’s. Some of these incidents pointed to a regime that was harsh and unpredictable with corporal punishment the usual response to misbehaviour. Three male complainants described incidents of sexual abuse and the significant factor in each account was the child’s inability to confide to the Sister who was caring for him. Men who were employed in the school appeared to have ready access to these small boys and there was no awareness of the risks posed by this.

In 1954, a handyman who had been employed in the school for the previous 30 years was discovered to have been grossly sexually abusing girls from as young as eight years old. An investigation which was conducted by the Department of Education, confirmed the abuse but the children concerned were offered no comfort and the perpetrator, although dismissed from the school, was not reported to the Gardai.

The second period in which sexual abuse arose in St Joseph’s was during the 1970s after the school admitted boys, when two care workers who were sexually abusing boys were dismissed. Both men went on to abuse again after leaving St Joseph’s and the failure of the Congregation to deal decisively with these men was a factor in this.

---

The high court judge Sean Ryan today unveiled the 2,600-page final report of Ireland's commission into child abuse, which drew on testimony from thousands of former inmates and officials from more than 250 church-run institutions. Police were called to the news conference amid angry scenes as victims were prevented from attending.

The findings prompted the new Archbishop of Westminster, the Most Rev Vincent Nichols, to say that it took "courage" for those clergy involved in child sex abuse to confront their actions. In an interview to be broadcast tonight on ITV News at Ten, he said: "I think of those in religious orders and some of the clergy in Dublin who have to face these facts from their past which instinctively and quite naturally they'd rather not look at. That takes courage, and also we shouldn't forget that this account today will also overshadow all of the good that they also did."

The report found that molestation and rape were "endemic" in boys' facilities, chiefly run by the Christian Brothers order, and supervisors pursued policies that increased the danger. Girls supervised by orders of nuns, chiefly the Sisters of Mercy, suffered much less sexual abuse but instead endured frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless.

The report concluded that when confronted with evidence of sex abuse, religious authorities responded by transferring offenders to another location, where in many instances they were free to abuse again.

Are you aware this was during world war 2?

Yep.
Note the title: 20th century atrocities please and thank you.

WW2 saw a lot of vicious fighting, murder and genocide - including in the Balkans, where Catholic Croatia had aligned with Nazi Germany, and Orthodox Serbia with Communist Russia.
I am not sure how you can attribute killings or murders carried out by Croat troops, during a war, to the Catholic Church, simply because the Croats are nominally Catholic.

Well I can and I do.

I think that's a pretty laughable argument, to be honest.

I'm not laughing.

The allies ("the good guys") dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians during the war.

(1) How many people do you think that killed?
(2) Should the Church of England or other protestant denomination be blamed for that?

1) a lot
2) Probably

For one thing, as a Pope he was a head of state, and so immune from prosecution. So he gave up his immunity, because he was shown to be guilty? DOH! (Hey cleetus, dontcha think he would to keep his immunity in that scenario?)

Mister Ratzinger broke a 600yr tradition and surprised even his own clergy with the move.

Cardinal George Pell told The Associated Press it "kind of shook us and startled us because we are not used to it."

Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York said Thursday that
"A pope dying is natural — a pope stepping aside is something new to us. So it was startling," he added.

So long as he's in the Vatican City he's immune, duh.

March 2
VATICAN CITY — A relaxed and rested Pope Emeritus Benedict read messages from well-wishers and strolled in his retirement palace gardens Friday as cardinals due to elect his successor planned pre-vote meetings for next week.
http://news.msn.com/world/ahh-pope-emeri...nsnewsrel1

CBS NEWS/ March 1, 2013, 10:40 AM
Cardinal Dolan: U.S. Church on "right track" in sex abuse scandal
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-5757...e-scandal/

Pope Benedict XVI’s leaked documents show fractured Vatican full of rivalries Benedict had installed Viganò to enact a series of reforms within the Vatican. But some of Rome’s highest-ranking cardinals undercut the efforts and hastened Viganò’s exile to the United States.

Viganò’s plight and other unflattering machinations would soon become public in an unprecedented leak of the pontiff’s personal correspondence. Much of the media — and the Vatican — focused on the source of the shocking security breach. Largely lost were the revelations contained in the letters themselves — tales of rivalry and betrayal, and allegations of corruption and systemic dysfunction that infused the inner workings of the Holy See and the eight-year papacy of Benedict XVI.

VatiLeaks, as the scandal came to be known, dragged the fusty institution into the wild WikiLeaks era. It exposed the church bureaucracy’s entrenched opposition to Benedict’s fledgling effort to carve out a legacy as a reformer against the backdrop of a global child sex abuse scandal and the continued dwindling of his flock.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-...tican-city

Really, the entire Catholic Order needs to be charged in their crimes. The reason why Pope Ratzinger left is mute behind the growing evidence for your church's staggering corruption, and the fact that these wrongs occurred during his 'reign'. If even the man "ordained by God himself" can't control his congregation then what the fuck are you still doing giving them money and support for?

It is quite chilling to me, how easily many people are taken in by this -when evidence is clearly available to the contrary - especially young people. Still it is an excellent example of propaganda techniques and the power of the media, not to say a general lack of critical thinking in society.

I'm going to quote the media here for fun, because to be frank: your general lack of critical thinking is astounding me and I have no response for this one. Oh and a bonus commentary.


In the past several days, I have experienced many examples of being humiliated. In recent days, I have been confronted in various places by very unhappy people. I could understand the depth of their anger and outrage — at me, at the Church, at about injustices that swirl around us.
Thanks to God’s special grace, I simply stood there, asking God to bless and forgive them.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/25/world/euro...index.html

Vatican officials were already trying Monday to swat down unsavory claims by Italian publications of a brewing episode involving gay priests, male prostitutes and blackmail when news broke that Benedict had moved up the resignation of a Scottish archbishop linked over the weekend by a British newspaper to inappropriate relationships with priests.