Topless protesters celebrate the popes resignation in Paris

[Gabriel Syme]

I am an ardent protester of all cults.

Hiya again. Why are you are ardent protester "of all cults"?

Dontcha have anything better to do? Why waste your time on something you dislike or have no time for? Isn't life too short?

You put out a generally biased commentary, thus I replied. Duh.

You don't say why it is biased? Mmmm? Purely because it disagrees with you? lol

Fair enough. You were just making non-sequiter comparison between a violent genocidal campaign, and peaceful protest.

I made a comparison between two types of people who operate the same kind of tactics. People who seek to interfere with others right to practice their religion, (a fundamental human right).

People who seek to cause hurt and distress by causing offence is places held sacred by others. People who seek to suppress others freedom of speech and expression, by targetting them in this manner, because they are different.

Yes, the comparison is very much valid.

FEMENs behaviour is both extremist and fascist.

If they wanted to make a peaceful protest, they could have done so entirely legitimately outside the cathedral. I would support their right to do so. As it is however, their mode of conduct is disgraceful and has no place in a civlised society.

And no wonder. The leaders of FEMEN left Ukraine to escape prosecution for destroying a memorial, (a cross), to all Ukrainian victims (from any background) of totalitarian murder under Stalin's Soviet regime.

However, I doubt they even stopped for a second to think what the memorial represented ,( the memory of loved ones), or to whom (bereaved families), given their crude, idiotic, thoughtless, attention seeking behaviour. They did it to support Pussy Riot against the Russian Orthodox Church, but the memorial to murder victims they destroyed was created by the Catholic Church. So they didn't even manage to get their victims right. Dumb fucks.

Some nice heroes you got there.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/...14756.html

Additionally, they are not genuine feminists. They are puppets, circus clowns, cultural terrorists. They have no genuine principles and their behaviour is purely motivated by the money they receive from their masters, to carry out orders, such as the stunt discussed here.

KIEV, September 21 (Itar-Tass) —— Activists from Ukraine’s FEMEN movement get naked for a salary of at least 1,000 U.S. dollars, Kiev’s 1 Plus 1 television channel said on Friday, referring to a woman journalist from the Groshi (Money) television program who infiltrated into that scandalous female movement.

http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c32/526669.html

I have a lot of time and admiration for real feminists, like Emmeline Pankhurst, but literally zero for these clowns, whose antics - more than anything else - show feminism is now redundant.

They are not motivated by principle, they are motivated by someone else's money.

Someone else who does not have the courage of, or confidence in, their own stances, so they pay puppets to perform instead.

Tell me, how does it feel, to learn the "feminist" movement is about the colour of money , not women's rights? Don't seem so principled and bold all of a sudden, eh?

Why? Because of course it is redundant. Most "feminists" now have never known anything other than full social, financial, voting etc equality - including you, I would bet!

Modern feminism is little more than women doing what they love best - talking about themselves

What do these "feminists" have in common with gay marriage advocates anyway, other than the fact that they all seem to hate it that they are not heterosexual men?

Your definition of context is skewed if you're serious here. Which I think you are.

You don't say why it is skewed?

The comparison I made is correct. With this behaviour , FEMEN are clearly saying to Catholics:

- we hate you

- we have no respect for you

- we will go far beyond our right to voice an opinion and instead seek to hurt you, to denigrate that which is important to you and to interfere with your fundamental rights

- we will continue to treat you in this way until you give up your freedom of speech and disappear, so we can dominate

They are not debating, they are not protesting, they are persecuting.
And the whole thing is calculated to impress simple / impressionable people, hence the cheap nudity and stunts angle.

The bullet points above are pretty much the same outlook of the Nazis louts who mistreated synagogues and jewish people at prayer in the 1930s.

To this day, in parts of Germany, synagogues are guarded by uniformed policemen or women, (I have seen this personally, in Berlin), to prevent them being invaded or abused.

How long will it before Catholic Churches have to be guarded by the Police, due to the actions of FEMEN?

Is that your "feminist" vision for society? Would it not be better if we could live in peace together and not require the presence of Police Officers to be able to peacefully enact our fundamental rights?

As for the rest: well, it's this strange magical thing called the In-ter-net.
Write that down.

Much like parts of the bible, parts of the internet are nonsense.

Write that down!

Uhhhhhh... What the fuck dude? Lacking of critical thinking? Really? Please tell me you're referring to yourself--or that would just be a silly baseless petty and misinformed excuse for an assertion. I'm not talking about a film here, I'm talking about real live government inquiries and court commissions. How is it hard to see that women (or anyone for that matter) would have an issue with children being raped?

No I am refering to you regards the critical thinking jibe lol . As shown here:

- you mentioned the magdalen laundries originally
-I responded quoting a recent report which says they are nothing like the popular perception, such as you mentioned
- you respond to this by switching to discuss abuse in schools

I am more than happy to discuss, but let's keep on the same topic for more than 1 second at a time.

I am not sure how you can attribute killings or murders carried out by Croat troops, during a war, to the Catholic Church, simply because the Croats are nominally Catholic.

Well I can and I do.

That is simple, unthinking prejudice. You dislike Catholicism because you want to.

Your attitude is completely irrational.

It is exact the same as a racist forming a view of all black people based on some negative encounter with one black person.

You could only blame the Catholic Church as an institution for these actions, if it said "Kill loads of Orthodox Serbs" i n the Catholic Catechism.

Guess what....it doesnt.

I think that's a pretty laughable argument, to be honest.

I'm not laughing.

I am!

The allies ("the good guys") dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians during the war.

(1) How many people do you think that killed?
(2) Should the Church of England or other protestant denomination be blamed for that?

1) a lot
2) Probably

1) correct
2) absurd - the secular US Government is responsible for those actions.

So long as he's in the Vatican City he's immune, duh.

As I said in my previous post to you - he left the Vatican when he abdicated, and ever since has been in Castel Gandolfo, a town 15 miles outside rome. He will stay at the papal residence there until the conclave is finished and a new Pope is elected. Then he will go back to stay in the Vatican for a period.

At a little past 5:00 PM, Vatican time, on 28 February 2013, less than three hours before his resignation was to become effective, Benedict left the Vatican by Italian military helicopter, headed for Castel Gandolofo, where he arrived around 15 minutes later at 5:24 PM.[4] He will stay at Castel Gandolfo during the conclave, after which he will permanently retire and live in relative seclusion at Mater Ecclesiae, a former monastery inside Vatican City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castel_Gandolfo
(proper referencess within link).

Castel Gandolfo is in italy, not the Vatican state.

He could have been arrested at any point since he retired, no matter where is he........but nothing. Of course.

Anyway, even if he was still in the Vatican, an international arrest warrant would still have to be honoured if presented.

The Italian Police could just walk in and take him, they already Police St Peters square by arrangement. Italy previously invaded the Papal States using military force, they wouldn't blanche at a simple arrest of someone.

But there is no, and will not be, any arrest warrant - because the whole thing is fiction. You are completely brainwashed by the media and activists in this regard. I confess, I am somewhat impressed - in a morbid sense - by the fruits of their labours.

[ Really, the entire Catholic Order needs to be charged in their crimes. The reason why Pope Ratzinger left is mute behind the growing evidence for your church's staggering corruption, and the fact that these wrongs occurred during his 'reign'. If even the man "ordained by God himself" can't control his congregation what the fuck are you still doing giving them money and support for?[/b]

Anyone who breaks the law should be brought to account, regardless of who or what they are.

Actually, most of these cases in the media date from decades ago, not during Ratzingers Pontificate or even his time at the CDF.

The Popes job is to articulate Christian doctrine, not to "control his followers". Human beings are supposed to be able to control themselves, having the gift of reason. There over 400,00 Catholic priests in the world, (with over 100,000 currently in training), and over 5,000 Bishops. There are about 1.3 billion people who are nominally Catholic. The Pope cannot micromanage each and every one of these people.

Prior to Ratzingers reform of how the Church deals with abuse, it was local Bishops who dealt with any such accusations. It went no higher than them, which is exactly how some of them managed to hush things up. After reform, matter are now dealt with centrally, by the CDF, to ensure proper and consistent action (via removing influence of friendships, local biases etc).

You seem to think the Catholic Church has a particular or exclusive problem with abuse. This is just how the media has conditioned you, by concentrating exclusively on Catholic examples. It is depressing how people are taken in by this.

I am not saying the Catholic Church should escape punishment or criticism, for its failings - of course not - but I do resent the implication of a specific or exclusive problem. This is not the case, but that's what the media and others want you to think (because it suits their aims in current topics - e.g. gay marriage - to have the Catholic Church marginalised).

Do you know that, in the USA:

1. Protestant Churches face the majority of child abuse allegations .
Mark Clayton, "Sex Abuse Spans Spectrum of Churches", Christian Science Monitor, April 5, 2002, p.1.


2. Physical abuse and unwanted sexual attention toward minors is several orders of magnitude higher in US schools, than in US Catholic Churches. The problem far exceeds the scale in the Catholic Church.
Caroline Hendrie, "Sexual Abuse by Educators Scrutinized", in: Education Week, March 10, 2004

But thats not the impression you would get from the media , or certain websites, is it? From those sources, you would think that the Catholic Church had a monopoly on abuse.

I would strongly advise you read the following (referenced) article
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...fm0131.htm

To put the scale of Catholic abuse in context against other organisations/religions.

Many people have a very biased impression, to the point of it being absurd, thanks to a wholly unquestioning attitude towards the media.

[ what the fuck are you still doing giving them money and support for?

The Catholic Church provides 26% of the total healthcare on earth (117,000) hospitals and health-centres. Millions of people depend on it for their only source of healthcare.

The Catholic Church educates millions of people, who would otherwise do without their right to knowledge. In some places it is the only organisation which will educate girls (other communities will not, due to cultural or religious reasons). It is the largest non-governmental educational body in the world.

The Catholic Church maintains a global network of aid and relief agencies, through which it distributes approx. $2 billion pa to help the poor and needy.

Additionally, the Catholic runs many small schemes and initiatives at regional and local level, which do much to help their local communities, and you or I will never know about.

That's why

I am proud to belong to have a group which has helping the needy and loving thy neighbour as its guiding principles.

That's certainly a whole lot use to humanity than the antics of the self-indulgent, principles-for-money, crude exhibitionists of FEMEN.

Yes, its not perfect - as these scandals show - but what human organisation is?

---

Well, before I demonstrate my moral superiority, where is your evidence? (Credible sources only please).

Who exactly helped the Nazis? Which Nazis exactly? How did they help them? What is the proof of this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may...-documents

How long did you think you were going to be able to delay before someone actually fronted up and provided evidence? Where did you think you were going with this?

Hi esquilax,

You do not provide any evidence in that link. It says:

The Red Cross and the Vatican both helped thousands of Nazi war criminals and collaborators to escape after the second world war, according to a book that pulls together evidence from unpublished documents.

and

The Red Cross has previously acknowledged that its efforts to help refugees were used by Nazis because administrators were overwhelmed, but the research suggests the numbers were much higher than thought

and

Steinacher believes the Vatican's help was based on a hoped-for revival of European Christianity and dread of the Soviet Union

Lets see now.

So after WW2, with millions of displaced people needing help, the Red Cross humanitarian organisation tries to help these people.

The Catholic Church, being a Christian organisation, naturally helps with this endeavour.

During the chaos at the end of the war, amid millions of refugees, some wanted men managed to abuse the Red Cross efforts, using false identities etc.

And you - in all seriousness - honestly regard this as a fair summation:

The Red Cross and the Vatican both helped thousands of Nazi war criminals and collaborators to escape after the second world war

?????

This is exactly what I talk about, regarding media propaganda and the power of suggestion. You need to be much more questioning of things.

The article is paper-thin on facts. By using suggestive and leading language, it encourages pre-prejudiced readers to make their own conclusions which are not supported by anything in the article itself.

The article provides no evidence whatsoever that the Catholic Church knowingly or otherwise helped wanted criminals to escape.

The only accusation against it is one mans apparent journalistic belief - again, the qualifier shows that what you are not reading is not established fact - based on a frankly ludicrous theory. Christian revival of Europe? Europe was strongly Christian already at that point in history.

I wonder how much of his journalistic belief is rooted in fact, (not a lot it seems), and how much it has to do with him wanting to write a book, to make some dough from gullible people who enjoy reading about how evil the Catholic Church is supposed to be?

The Guardian would print any old shite, no matter how transparent, just as long as it painted the Catholic Church is a bad light.