RE: Proving God Existence
March 19, 2013 at 1:56 am
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 2:12 am by Muslim Scholar.)
(March 18, 2013 at 4:30 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: So Scholar, I find it interesting that you apply all of this "logic" to the universe in an effort to prove your god exists but fail to apply any logic at all to determining how that god exists in the first place.The question here has no meaning, God always existed (as proved)
So (in your own words) "let's assume" all of your "calculations" are correct and god exists. Where did he come from?
You need to think only within the proof and don't distract yourself with issues outside it (it is called abstract thinking)
Because the proof is proving the existence of something (G) which is eternal and outside time before the universe
The question How cannot be answered because G is unique, there is no way for us to understand how he do things at all
it is even more than that, if we understand then he is not God.
Quote:If the universe was either static or did not exist, would not the same reasoning apply to your god?No, because he is outside time (as proved)
Quote:You claim that time must exist for actions to take place. You then claim that god had to take action to change the state of the universe (or bring it into existence) to bring time into existence. However, by your own definition, there was no time for god to have taken action in.Please use time as I defined within the context of the proof
We are not using the global known definition of time.
(March 18, 2013 at 7:07 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote: So your argument is essentially - while it may appear that I can split the time between 1 second and 2 seconds into infinite numerical values - but because I can get to 2 seconds, time must be made of finite "bits" and therefore not infinite.True, numbers are finite as well!
By the same reasoning - you prove numbers are finite - because you can count up to 2. Even thou there appears to be infinite "bits" of number. 1.11, 1.123... etc - You can count to 2, therefore there must be finite bits between 1.00000001... and 1.999999999... therefore numbers are finite.
Actually anything is finite, infinity is just an approximation we made to represent something very big or unlimited
for example numbers, they exist just as a concept until you start writing them, then they really exist and connote be infinite
(March 18, 2013 at 7:59 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Using this logic that something which isn't constructed of similar matter wouldn't reflect light, then how do you explain something which is separate and unique from the universe speaking to individual people within the universe, making a virgin pregnant, causing floods, turning a stick into a snake, giving a man a horse which can fly up to where allah lives ?We cannot explain what or How God do things!
Because we only can understand things that are similar to what we see in the universe
God is not similar to anything we see or observe that is why we cannot comprehend that.
Even our languages don't support that.
(March 18, 2013 at 9:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Well, here is the thing with me. I am convinced a higher power exists (not certain though but feel close to certain) but I don't believe it's worthy of worship and believe the opposite, that it's not. The reason being not that it's not ultimate in it's attributes, but that it didn't earn it's character and praise and that earned praise is greater then unearned praise.That is another subject
I don't really know what the makes me. Sort of something in between a deist and an atheist I think.
I'll discuss this later in another thread
(March 18, 2013 at 9:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It feels like worshiping the Creator is part of my nature. I just don't know anymore.Yes, this exactly what Islam says
God created an instinct in us to worship him, according to Islam everyone is born as a Muslim