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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 9:17 pm
(March 18, 2013 at 9:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (March 18, 2013 at 9:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Well, here is the thing with me. I am convinced a higher power exists (not certain though but feel close to certain) but I don't believe it's worthy of worship and believe the opposite, that it's not. The reason being not that it's not ultimate in it's attributes, but that it didn't earn it's character and praise and that earned praise is greater then unearned praise.
I don't really know what the makes me. Sort of something in between a deist and an atheist I think. Why?
I don't know it just seems that way to me. That if it always what it was, and didn't earn it's character, it cannot be said to be greater then what had to earn it's value and character.
Perhaps this is indoctrination from Islam where good humans were said to be greater then Angels because they had to overcome lust and adversity, while Angels were simply good and immune to disobedience.
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 9:19 pm
It seems that way to me is less than convincing though, wouldn't you agree? Say I claimed that it seemed the opposite way?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 9:21 pm
Hmm...yeah tricky. It's just that there was no effort on part of God....there was no adversity. I dunno...I guess I could just repeat the axiom but I can't prove it.
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 9:24 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2013 at 9:25 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So what we have here at present is a sort of wishlist regarding how you would like the relative value of something to be determined. Would it be fair to say that this tells me, for example, more about you, for example...then it would about any god (and the relative value of it's "x")?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 9:27 pm
(March 18, 2013 at 9:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So what we have here at present is a sort of wishlist regarding how you would like the relative value of something might be determined. Would it be fair to say that this tells me, for example, more about you, for example...then it would about any god (and the relative value of it's "x")?
I don't know. Maybe the case is that we cannot belittle the Creator because it couldn't chose to chose and face adversity but at the same time, we cannot worship it because of the same reason.
It does tell perhaps more about me, but I think humans tend to admire people who had to work for their position then one simply given it. I think this is universal of humans.
Perhaps the problem of suffering/evil along with this, shows God is unlike the goodness of humans and there is no real similarity, although we always imagine God to be like us humans in goodness.
I dunno. Interesting conversation.
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 9:31 pm
Oh I'm with you, I prefer that praise (or condemnation) be earned as well. I can't say that it raises to more than a preference in the individual sense.
"If cattle had gods they'd look like cattle."
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 9:43 pm
(March 18, 2013 at 9:31 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Oh I'm with you, I prefer that praise (or condemnation) be earned as well. I can't say that it raises to more than a preference in the individual sense.
You are right. I can't say it either. It just seems that way to me. That's all I can go by really.
That's why I'm more of agnostic these days. Sometimes I just feel like calling "O God hear my prayers when I pray to you and respond to my call when I call to you....(and begin supplicating like I use)".
It feels like worshiping the Creator is part of my nature. I just don't know anymore.
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 10:03 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2013 at 10:04 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Perhaps desiring the intercession of an influence more powerful or capable than yourself is part of your nature, whether there is a "creator" or not (again this tells me more about you than any "creator").
To use a salient example, I sometimes wish that I knew an engineer to solve "x" for me, or at least point me in the right direction when I am personally incapable or doubtful of my ability. Perhaps when you say "god please" it's directly equivalent to my saying " I wish a knew an engineer that specialized in "x"".
Just food for thought.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 10:21 pm
I greatly desire a Patron and Helper that can boost me up in will power and resolve. I know that for certain.
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RE: Proving God Existence
March 19, 2013 at 12:28 am
 (March 18, 2013 at 10:21 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I greatly desire a Patron and Helper that can boost me up in will power and resolve. I know that for certain.
Mystic and Rhythm, I commend you both. This has been a most interesting conversation and possibly the most civilized exchange of ideas and topical discussion I have yet seen in this forum.
Well played, both of you.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
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