(March 24, 2013 at 8:57 pm)A_Nony_Mouse Wrote:(March 19, 2013 at 1:26 am)Godschild Wrote:
What I find difficult to believe is people who can and do study the bible and not read what is clearly stated but rather invents things which are not there.
I assume you are speaking of me, Ok. What I have trouble understanding, are people who say they have a reasoning mind yet can't see the truth of scriptures. Could it be they do see it but would rather ignore the truth and invent things which are not there.
ANM Wrote:There is no commandment on one of the two important trees. What it does say is at most a warning such as don't drink the stuff under the sink. That statement contains its own punishment, immediate death after eating and is also a lie. The serpent tells the truth.
Here is a fine example of what was stated above, why would God not want Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of life? This is the reason why, God said they could eat of all the trees in the Garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Sounds to me God gave a commandment for all the trees, even the Tree of Life, in one encompassing commandment. Sounds reasonable don't you think?
The commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil had to do with spiritual life, eating the fruit would break the spiritual walk Adam and Eve enjoyed with God. They suffered spiritual death immediately, physical death came later, neither of which they had to suffer if they had obeyed the One who gave them life. The serpent's lie did cost them, it cost them an immediate spiritual death and later a physical death as well. Before you go on about that's not right, remember this is a book of spiritual life recorded about those living a physical life.
ANM Wrote:And the reason they are thrown out is very clearly to prevent them from becoming gods by eating the tree of life. It cannot be more explicit but I know people will argue against this so lets just stick with the silly puritanical Augustine invention of what the story means and hear your defense of it. Keep in mind "I do not know the meaning IF any meaning" is always a legitimate answer.
The reason they were banished from the Garden was punishment for disobedience. It's apparent the Tree of Life was not going to be removed from the Garden, why, only God knows scripture never tells us.
There's a reason God did not want them to live forever in their present condition, they would have had to suffer in sin for eternity and there would be no remission for their sin. Scripture tell us God said, "they would become like Us and live forever". God simply meant they would live for eternity as God does.
If I did not understand what God has taught me I would say so, as with the Tree of Life, I have no idea why God did not just remove it. I'm going to stay with what I know is the truth of scripture, as for you... well I would guess what ever pleases you, no other nonbeliever has listen yet, as far as I know.
GC Wrote:Then comes the 10 Commandments, well the Israelites started disobeying in short order.
ANM Wrote:Excuse but your god got off to a bad start by sending his priests through the tribes to massacre innocent people for worshiping a golden calf BEFORE there was a commandment against it. No, there is no reference to Noatic law. Yes, the people hear the commandments being spoken from the mountain only in de Mille's movie. That kind of god rules only be fear and terror. There is no problem doing anything you can get away with.
You do not see anything wrong with murder, raper, child abuse and ect. as long as no one finds out, you are a scary person. You have no right judging priest with that attitude, what you believe is Ok is far worse than what you believe about those priest and the tribe they are from. By the way you've given us the idea you do not know much of the nation of Israel, the priest come from one tribe only, Levi. Ex. 19:9 And the LORD said to Moses,"Behold, I shall come to you in a thick cloud, in order that the people may hear when I speak to with you, and may also believe in you forever. Scripture says they heard God speak.
The lesson of false worship was made apparent in the 3rd chapter of Genesis, when Adam and Eve worshiped the self by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. At least a couple thousand years of death had already been witnessed because of that act.
GC Wrote:Then comes the law of Moses and again these laws were broken in short order.
ANM Wrote:Similarly Moses makes up arbitrary and capricious "laws" that mostly appear as exercises in "how silly can it get?" and then has his priests enforce them by terror tactics. Think secret police and summary execution but call them priests and justice.
This is another fine example of one who says he reasons, yet makes up his own stories, rather than take scripture for what is said. God gave these laws to Moses, Moses did not make them up, this is plainly stated. I think some of the laws which were given sound strange, I however believe they had a purpose for the Israelite nation, not living in that time and place puts us at a disadvantage when it comes to knowing why some laws were so important. The warnings given came from God also.
GC Wrote:
ANM Wrote:IF that god were trying to teach it would never have let that whacko Moses prohibit mixing kinds of thread and his other insanities. In fact that would god would have publicly defleshed him to restore its reputation among the Israelites/Hebrews/masses oppressed by Moses and his gang of priests.
Please tell us all where you got such ideas, I know it wasn't from the Bible, Moses and the priest did not act the way you believe they did. God never has to defend himself, the consequences of disobedience are through God's judgement on His people.
ANM Wrote:That god would also have done something recognizable as humane and rational like declaring slavery a sin of course that would have pissed off the Israelites who forceably brought their slaves with them -- no matter how many times it is translated servants. And how is it humans demonstrated superior morality to this god by banning slavery?
When it comes to things like slavery we suddenly discover the god was parochial and provincial and unable to rise above its times. Why do people need to make excuses for this god just because it is their god? What kind of a god regulates instead of prohibits slavery? BTW, it is chattel slavery with a few exceptions which apply only to other "Israelites." Non-jews be damned.
First thing here, I make no excuses for God, I have not right to judge my Creator and to make excuses would be just that, judging.
The type of slavery you have in mind is man made slavery, ie. slavery that existed in the U.S. and that was sinful and the U.S. paid a heavy price for it with the Civil War, that war was God's judgement for slavery.
The slavery that Israel brought upon the peoples of Canaan was through God's judgement on them. The slavery that you do not want people to call servants was to be for no more than 7 years and then they were to be freed and their debt paid. When God puts a people into slavery in the OT it was punishment through just judgement. God is on the moral high round, not man, is you think you are good enough to judge the perfect God... well you are wrong.
As for some of us who read and study scripture we do our best to represent what God teaches us through His word. As for people like you who have no understanding of God or His word I guess you'll keep on making up stories to please yourselves instead of looking for truth.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.