In the beginning...

[stone]

Hold on, you asked me to come here and speak with you guys. If you want to debate with DR.Craig, then speak with him, if you want to speak with me, then speak with me.

Ok Stone. How does God will creation onto nothing and create something? Without anything to be effected by his power (no matter how much it may be) the power itself is useless and not effective.

The very concept of him willing it into place suggests there was a state of change within His will

(A state that He did not will it, into a changed state of His will from which it occurs) Without time, how is there change? Even change as in his difference in will?

Imagine for a minute that you are a monkey. You find a car parked next to your banana tree and can't figure out what it is. The keys are in the ignition. After a couple of weeks, after you figure out that the horn isn't going to eat you, you go back inside the car and start playing around with all the buttons and switches. You want to know how to work this thing you found, but you just can't put your mind around what it is and in between picking your butt and your friends butts and eating lice and bananas you occassionally play with the vehicle.

I could explain to you how to drive the car, I could even put you in a simulator and you could learn to put it in gear and press on the gas and the break, however, chances are your just going to drive yourself over the cliff a hundred or so feet away.

The same would be like for me to explain to you about how God creates by speaking.

Your 1st problem is that you don't understand that there are things in this world that you don't understand. It would be the same as you teaching a monkey to drive a car. You may think that you can do it, but you can't.

God creates something out of nothing by speaking the words, let there be light. You don't know what all that entails. If you claim to, then you have some kind of God complex, where you think that you are more smarter than anything that there is on the planet. When the reality is, you are only a monkey. This is where you are now, a little monkey that thinks he knows everything and is only going to drive himself over a cliff.

True wisdom will come from being humble and understanding that there are many things in this world that you will never understand.

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Nothing like having an exception to the rule, in other words... a special pleading.

Actually, you're the one special pleading because you have made an exception for the physical universe. Every physical object with which we have experience has a beginning and persists and presumably ends. The coming into being of any physical object depends on something other than itself into order to begin and persist (which is just continual coming into being).

The known universe is a physical object, the same as all others. So even as a whole, the physical universe should not be treated differently than any other physical object. I avoid special pleading by posit the existence of necessary non-physical attributes. These two taken together, the physical and non-physical constitute the larger reality, which I call the Totality (because it is neutral with regards to divinity) or what the ancients called the One or the All or the Good.

Nice try, though. Attempting to pidgen-hole my position into something familiar that you think you can easily refute. I'm going to make you work for it.

Why do you think you can use science to prove God?