Sign in Quran

[paulpablo]

I understand what you mean, but I would have thought during the 7th century on a continent with many high mountainous regions (the highest mountain on earth in fact mt everest isn't far from india) people would have been aware that when you climb high, oxygen becomes depleted. Well not that oxygen becomes depleted, but that your chest feels tight when you climb high.

I don't think it would be right to say no one ever climbed a mountain or knew about high altitude in the 7th century.

By the way I don't enjoy debunking the quran, if I thought it was miraculous I'd look more into it, but I have seen nothing miraculous in the quran.

Actually shouldn't it better for the verse to say, He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing to the top of mountain. Because climbing into the sky was likely something impossible even if we just give a thought about it.

You guys always asked an evidence about God, how about I asked you any simple evidence that someone/race from or before 7th century, whom has climbed to the top of mountain and go to the desert just to share that his breast become tight and constricted (sign of less pressure right) as if he were climbing to the top. (well, actually you have to climb real high just to feel the symptom right).

Anyways, how about verse 24:45? I always fascinated with this verse, and sometimes I want to know other's thought about it.

If mountains reach the sky why would it have been impossible for them to climb into the sky in the 7th century, or at least high enough for them to feel some effect? Also you said the quran describes things how a 7th century person would understand, but now you're claiming a 7th century person wouldn't understand this metaphor, so would they or would they not understand? It seems strange that you claim they couldn't have known this, so then how would the metaphor have been understood?

I don't think a single man would go from being in a mountain then run to the desert and tell muhammad about the effects he had just felt but information doesn't need to pass directly from one person to another, people in rome knew that england existed in ancient times but it would have been from established knowledge and learning rather than one man running to england then running back again and saying hey englands over that way. I just personally find it hard to believe that for 5000 years or whatever before muhammad no one ever climbed a mountain and reported feeling difficulty breathing.

So simply put do I find it a divine undeniale miracle that someone in the 7th century knew that it got difficult to breath when you get higher? No not really.

Just let me make it clear again that I don't enjoy debunking the quran but this isn't even debunking the quran. I don't believe the quran has even set out to establish that this knowledge is miraculous, it seems simple to me that this is a clear metaphor actually designed so people would understand it. Its describing how god puts belief into people who he wants and he constricts the chest of those who he doesn't want as if they were climbing high, its actually spoken as if people DO already know about it. Rather then saying hey this book is definitely made by god because we know about how its difficult for humans to breath when they get near the sky.

If muhammad had ever seen snakes birds and dogs then verse 24 45 isnt miraculous either.