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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
1984 & A/S/K revisited

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1984 & A/S/K revisited
Tonus Offline
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#116
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited
April 19, 2013 at 6:43 am
(April 19, 2013 at 3:27 am)Waratah Wrote: Glad you accept that the rejection of god means that when christ returns then you will lose free will which is not free will really then. Simple isn't it.

I think Esquilax has it right-- it's not that we don't have free will in GC's scenario; it's that the choice we're offered is no choice at all, and therefore free will is superfluous. It's meaningless. "Serve me and get the best reward imaginable, or reject me and get the worst punishment imaginable-- you are free to choose."

People who freely reject the offer do not do so on the basis of the offer itself, but on other considerations-- primarily their understanding of the nature of the person making the offer. If you were given the choice based solely on the offer (super awesome reward versus worst punishment ever) then there is no choice. You take the reward every time. Even rats can be trained to press a button to get food, or to avoid pressing a button if it delivers pain.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
1984 & A/S/K revisited

Messages In This Thread
1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 9, 2013 at 12:55 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 9, 2013 at 2:09 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 9, 2013 at 2:13 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 9, 2013 at 3:20 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 9, 2013 at 3:31 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 9, 2013 at 8:07 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Anomalocaris - April 10, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Drich - April 17, 2013 at 11:11 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 17, 2013 at 11:47 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 9, 2013 at 6:58 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 9, 2013 at 11:52 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 10, 2013 at 12:24 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 10, 2013 at 12:44 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 10, 2013 at 1:01 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 10, 2013 at 8:57 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 10, 2013 at 1:08 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 10, 2013 at 7:53 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 10, 2013 at 9:03 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 11, 2013 at 4:01 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 11, 2013 at 1:36 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 11, 2013 at 5:48 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 12, 2013 at 5:16 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2013 at 6:16 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 12, 2013 at 11:08 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 14, 2013 at 10:18 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 14, 2013 at 11:15 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Neo-Scholastic - April 14, 2013 at 11:22 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 15, 2013 at 4:41 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 15, 2013 at 2:10 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 15, 2013 at 7:27 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 15, 2013 at 12:46 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 15, 2013 at 1:58 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 15, 2013 at 11:48 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Neo-Scholastic - April 15, 2013 at 8:30 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Tonus - April 15, 2013 at 11:19 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 16, 2013 at 12:10 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 16, 2013 at 3:15 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 16, 2013 at 3:55 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 16, 2013 at 5:30 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Waratah - April 16, 2013 at 7:54 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 16, 2013 at 10:55 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Waratah - April 17, 2013 at 5:41 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 17, 2013 at 5:20 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 6:40 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 18, 2013 at 12:59 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Waratah - April 18, 2013 at 8:11 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 10, 2013 at 1:12 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 10, 2013 at 2:39 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 9, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 10, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Neo-Scholastic - April 10, 2013 at 12:57 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 11, 2013 at 4:29 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Neo-Scholastic - April 11, 2013 at 12:14 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2013 at 12:21 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2013 at 7:39 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 11, 2013 at 12:43 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Darkstar - April 11, 2013 at 2:41 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 11, 2013 at 6:05 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Darkstar - April 11, 2013 at 6:21 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 11, 2013 at 10:12 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Darkstar - April 11, 2013 at 10:17 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 12, 2013 at 12:41 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 12, 2013 at 12:52 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 12, 2013 at 2:15 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 12, 2013 at 1:59 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 12, 2013 at 2:42 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 12, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Darkstar - April 12, 2013 at 6:08 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 12, 2013 at 10:57 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 13, 2013 at 3:17 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 13, 2013 at 3:57 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 13, 2013 at 1:44 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 13, 2013 at 2:26 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Undeceived - April 13, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 14, 2013 at 5:57 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 14, 2013 at 5:31 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 13, 2013 at 5:19 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2013 at 9:02 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by ebg - April 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Tonus - April 13, 2013 at 7:12 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2013 at 12:12 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 13, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 14, 2013 at 6:15 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by The Grand Nudger - April 14, 2013 at 8:19 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 14, 2013 at 10:47 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 14, 2013 at 10:52 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 12:09 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 17, 2013 at 12:55 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 1:41 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 17, 2013 at 4:40 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 9:07 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 17, 2013 at 10:28 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 10:33 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 17, 2013 at 11:18 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 11:32 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 17, 2013 at 11:39 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 3:25 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 17, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 18, 2013 at 7:42 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 18, 2013 at 9:45 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 18, 2013 at 6:35 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 18, 2013 at 7:00 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 19, 2013 at 12:15 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 19, 2013 at 9:09 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 19, 2013 at 2:48 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Waratah - April 19, 2013 at 1:12 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 19, 2013 at 1:29 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Waratah - April 19, 2013 at 3:27 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Tonus - April 19, 2013 at 6:43 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 19, 2013 at 8:43 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Waratah - April 19, 2013 at 10:24 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Waratah - April 17, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 18, 2013 at 8:42 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 18, 2013 at 11:14 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Ryantology - April 18, 2013 at 11:54 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Brayton.l - April 19, 2013 at 12:14 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 19, 2013 at 11:34 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 22, 2013 at 2:35 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 22, 2013 at 5:03 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 22, 2013 at 1:03 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 22, 2013 at 1:03 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 22, 2013 at 3:31 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by The Grand Nudger - April 22, 2013 at 12:46 pm
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Godschild - April 23, 2013 at 3:57 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by Esquilax - April 23, 2013 at 5:26 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by The Grand Nudger - April 23, 2013 at 9:12 am
RE: 1984 & A/S/K revisited - by pocaracas - April 23, 2013 at 9:32 am



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