Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 9, 2025, 12:58 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
are vegetarians more ethical by not eating meat?
RE: are vegetarians more ethical by not eating meat?
(May 20, 2013 at 1:13 am)Sal Wrote:
(May 19, 2013 at 2:44 pm)littleendian Wrote: We're talking about slaughter, which is actively killing an animal, usually in the prime of its life when the flesh tastes best, and I suspect you might object to someone killing you in your twenties, painfully or otherwise.
But according to my value system I deem my worth above that of an animal other than human. I don't claim a paragon of virtue in this, just that my value system is that way.
You cannot derive an ought from an is. As was mentioned, our value systems are the result of millenia of dogmatism, so it's a good idea to evaluate them closely. Atheism is set out to change how we view the world, and one of the key things here is our morality, which will change dramatically.

(May 20, 2013 at 1:13 am)Sal Wrote: I also noticed you anthropomorphize unto animals. Am I to think that my evolutionary line is the same as, say, a sheep? Or that my view (or any human) of reality is the same?
That's not my argument at all, no.

(May 20, 2013 at 1:13 am)Sal Wrote:
(May 19, 2013 at 2:44 pm)littleendian Wrote: Because our value systems can, like any other object of science, be scrutinized regarding their integrity. Right now, our value systems have been formed by millenia of Christian or heathen dogma, and I propose we need to re-evaluate quite a few aspects of it.
Culturally, that might be true. But quite a lot of people, also through history, have been atheistic, it isn't until after the Enlightenment that they stopped burning atheists at the stake.
Indeed, yet it seems very likely that our value systems are much more defined by the "thinking" of the superstitious masses, not the few outstanding rational individuals. Also, many of the great philosophers and people you would refer to as early pioneer scientists were themselfs in fact devout Christians and derived their value systems from the bible.

(May 20, 2013 at 1:13 am)Sal Wrote: It's only in the Western comfort zone that vegetarianism, as I can see (although I'm not sure of it), has been tenable. People have lived and feed on livestock for longer than recorded human history. I don't claim an historic antecedence that would justify it today, although I would point out that it's a new invention of culture to calculate in the option of vegetarianism in western culture.
Very true, and as was repeatedly pointed out, if someone can't grow crops and has to rely on animals to feed himself, then this is of course not immoral. But today we Westerners live in a world of plenty, we have access to all fruits and vegetables found on this planet, so it is a valid question whether we need to kill innocent and defenseless animals merely to please our taste buds.

(May 20, 2013 at 1:13 am)Sal Wrote: Probably is, yet there is only one species of animal that has Mind Theory and even a concept of suffering, the rest just suffers without ever knowing or coming to a realization: "I'm suffering" or "He's suffering" because that requires a whole new tier of experience of mind.
Theory of mind simply states that humans become aware and take into consideration that other's have a subjective world view and a mind of their own. Totally aside that animals have been shown to know the concept of reciprocity and also to an extend ToM: This has nothing to do with the ability to suffer and the will to live that is present in any evolved being, therefore ToM has nothing to do with the present argument. Don't hide behind complex theoretical constructs, the issue at hand is quite simple.

The only way out of the issue is to adopt a Cartesian world view of all animals being merely robots responding to external stimuli with nothing but mechanical responses. Aside from that only religious dogma can get you out of issue of having to justify why humans supposedly are so special.
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: are vegetarians more ethical by not eating meat? - by littleendian - May 20, 2013 at 2:08 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  [Serious] An Argument For Ethical Egoism SenseMaker007 29 5080 June 19, 2019 at 6:30 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Is Belief in God ethical? vulcanlogician 28 4233 November 1, 2018 at 4:10 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  Sweet and Ethical Prostitutes AFTT47 27 5832 November 18, 2017 at 6:55 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  What will you do? (Ethical dilemma question) ErGingerbreadMandude 91 14724 October 22, 2017 at 5:30 pm
Last Post: Silver
  Is Human Reproduction Un-Ethical? Brometheus 45 9759 April 6, 2015 at 7:22 pm
Last Post: Polaris
  Suicide: An Ethical Delimna LivingNumbers6.626 108 23317 December 27, 2014 at 3:26 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Any Vegetarians/Vegans here? là bạn điên 1057 228375 August 13, 2014 at 11:02 pm
Last Post: jughead
  Hume's Guillotine sets up an ethical regress problem Coffee Jesus 8 3466 April 13, 2014 at 9:14 am
Last Post: Coffee Jesus
  The difference between ethical atheism and nihlism is that ethical atheists have more faith jstrodel 104 43979 March 15, 2013 at 8:37 am
Last Post: The Reality Salesman01
  Ethical Philosophy Selector leo-rcc 36 13209 December 30, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Last Post: Ubermensch



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)