Assuming God?

[Mister Agenda]

In order to say there is no God you must first examine the concept of God and then deny the fact that God does not exist.

I don't deny the fact that God does not exist.

Sorry, couldn't resist the low-hanging fruit.

What your buddy is saying in the examination of God you are acknoweledging God on some level otherwise you would not have taken the time to dismiss Him. I dont know if i completely agree with that. As i examine things all the time just to see if trust/belief in something is warranted.

You could say the same thing about assigning Santa Clause a low probability of currently existing as usually described. I think you're right not to completely agree.

I contend that if you spend any amount of time outside of the time it takes to descern whether there is or isnt a God, you are guilty of denying God. Because if you do not believe in something it will be dismissed and you will quickly move on. (How much of your life have you spent argueing about Odin, Ra, or Posiden?).

You flatter your position. If you put as much effort in arguing for the existence of Odin, Ra, Poseidon, or Santa Clause; you'd see how easy it is to keep us from moving on when it comes to the existence of those proposed entities. The only thing special about God in that regard is that he's still got followers interested in debating us and passing legislation based on obeying him that affects us.

It is this "returning to the well" and argueing whether there is water at the bottom of it (even though others pull water from it's depths and drink from it reguraly) that places you in a position to be continually denying God.

That would be a better analogy if water was invisible and intangible and was scientifically indistinguishable from no water at all.

Your acknoweledgement comes in the form of the endless arguements and attempts to talk yourself out of belief.

I think we must be getting to you Drich, that you find the idea of an argument that amounts to 'you're only arguing with me because you know I'm right!' appealing. No matter how nonsensical the belief you propose, we'll argue against it, not because we want to convince ourselves that magical flying ponies aren't real, but because bad arguments exist to be vivisected.

For if non belief were absolute there is no arguement.

Argument from 'you wouldn't argue with me if you thought you were really right!'. Why do you argue with us so much, Drich?

I know true non-believers/atheists. i have them in my family. They do not argue any points of Christianity as they truly believe there is not God and it is pointless to argue anything. (just like if someone were to want to make a case for thor.)

Wow, I don't argue with many theists in RL either, unless they go out of their way to have that discussion with me. It's almost like people come to discussion forums for that kind of thing, so it selects for people who are up for discussing the topic. How about you throw a conspiracy theory at us so you can conclude we think it's really true because we debate it with you. You're going down a rabbit hole, and I have to tell you, increasing your cognitive dissonance by throwing out arguments that stink is a great way to wind up an atheist...that day when you notice all of your arguments suck can be a real eye-opener.

You might play along till your curosity has been satasified, but no one would argue beyond that much less spend a life time (ahem,cough minnie) unless he were trying to convince himself/justify his desision to deny belief in God.

Seriously, have you never been to ANY other kind of discussion board? Try to live your life always picking the side of the person who argues their position the least as being the one most likely to be on solid ground and see how that works out for you.

What passes as 'atheism' on this board is truly misotheism. The Hate of God.

Nobody here hates God. The most we can hate is a concept of God that someone proposes. It's not our fault that believers keep presenting concepts of God that make him look like the petty Oriental potentates that inspired his character. If we seem to harp on God's perported character, it's because there seems to be a disconnect between his followers claiming he's good and worthy of worship and the actions and desires they ascribe to him. I kind of like the idea of a creator God that is very potent and wise but not omnipotent and omniscient, and is doing the best it can with a vast universe and has prepared a good afterlife to make up for not being so outstanding with this universe. If someone ever proposes that God, I'll find the concept attractive...but I won't believe in it unless there's evidence that should convince a reasonable person.

But the reason "atheist" do not accept this title is because they will have to acknoweledge that they do believe in God. (You have to believe in something to hate it.)

Voldemort is a real evil fellow. Pointing out how evil he is to someone who insists Voldemort is the good guy in the Harry Potter series doesn't mean I believe in him. And I would eviscerate a post by an atheist based on the idea the theist she's arguing with doesn't really believe in God. I expect better from us. I wish I could expect better from you.

Few if any have the marbles to own up to their hate. (probably because deep down they do not have complete faith in their "atheism.")

Let me guess: not admitting we hate God means we really hate him, right?

The abysmal quality of arguments theists present for their case was what tipped me over to atheism. I had already become skeptical when I had the experience of learning about logical fallacies and burden of proof while also taking a class from a religion professor trying to make the case for belief: it was torture to watch the pretzels he was willing to twist his mind into in order to try to justify his belief.

I don't come here to reinforce my atheism. If anything, I come here hoping to see a better argument for God than I've heard so far. If I'm wrong, I want to know it. But what I see instead does wind up reinforcing my atheism: still no good arguments, even from people who say God whispers in their ear. It's not us arguing to convince ourselves, it's the continued pathetic quality of the arguments of theists like yourself make that convinces us. A good argument wouldn't make God real, but at least you could say you had a good argument.

You're a trooper, Drich, and I believe in your sincerity, but your logic is so bad it's insulting.