Childhood indoctrination

[The Grand Nudger]

Mine (metabolism) does just fine. I'm quite the little vegan chef when I want to be. I also roast a baddass rack of ribs. My wife won't put any vegetable in her mouth that isn't contained within a bottle of V8 - and my kids think that 90% of whatever you put on their plate is yucky regardless of what it is (or whether it was part of the 10% they didn't think was yucky last time it was on their plate). After everyone else gets their porkchop there's usually a bite left over for daddy (which gets chopped up and handed to daddy's yipping little brood after they inhale their own portions). It makes little sense for me to cook two meals at every sitting - and I generally end up with all the green beans anyway. Further, due to my understanding of the process of livestock production I don't have the sorts of moral misgivings that some of us might.

I'll take the falafel over the burger any day of the week - and I'll take the lobster over the steak. I have no vested interest either in the production of cattle/sheep/what have you - or it's consumption. My two favorite terrestrial protein sources just so happen to be venison and wild boar. I don't get too much of either these days because I don't have the time to go ambushing them at 0-dark thirty anymore.

I'm personally investing vast amounts of time and money to create and provide proof of concept (specifically for economic viability in low income/impoverished regions) for an integrated aqua/ag production method and associated business model that provides high quality protein (in the form of freshwater fish , crustaceans, and mollusks) as a byproduct of the manufacture of non-petrochem nutrient sources that are then used to produce large amounts of vegetables in a fantastically dense way (due to being vertical hydro) without any contamination of the soil (as none is present) or water (as the byproducts of one process are used as the inputs of the other - an artificial closed loop). In short, I want to produce more food - of a higher quality, at a lower price, with fewer inputs in a smaller space, for poorer and hungrier people.....all the while, hopefully, turning them a profit.

So when I advocate for the usefulness and reality of livestock in agricultural production -that- is why I do so. Not because I'm some moral midget looking for a way to make it okay to continue supporting cruelty to animals because I like the taste of sirloin tips.

(and Forb..if you're still onboard, lets see that omnivore bingo link again btw..so we can take a crack at where what I just explained falls)

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A master is who has power over someone else, which is exactly what a meat eater exerts, power over someone elses life.

Already been over this, the things we eat also exert "power" over us. We like to think that we're in the drivers seat..and of course we'd like to think that....but whether or not we actually are....lulz

Yes. There is life in the soil, and if that life is doing good then there's no need for significant amount of fertilizer to grow something. That this is not a possible way of doing "Big Ag" in a larger scale has not been shown and until it's done so I would assume it's feasible. Steiner's given some great impulses, and by the way if you have read him you will know he believes mankind will evolve towards vegetarianism. That aside (or maybe included for you), he had some very strange ideas as well...

It has been shown, and thats why we add fertility. Steiner, btw..big cowshit guy in case you were unawares. Also a peddler of magical production methods. Good luck with that - make sure theres enough quartz crystal and cowshit in that bulls horn...and that the phases of the moon are right -

I would argue as humans we define our place on the planet, it's animals and savages who are locked in their given ecosystem and behaviors.

Argue that all you like, when you're done arguing it, go out and grow food where food will not grow, using methods that do not work. Then get back to me about how we aren't locked into our ecosystems.

These raise some questions about one aspect of the issue, while I do hold most of the good reasons for veganism still stand.

I've seen good reasons for opposing the cruel treatment of animals (including ourselves - and I'm onboard), but I haven't seen any good reasons offered up for veganism- as of yet. What seems to be happening here is that a certain segment of us do not comprehend that the one is not synonymous with the other.