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Government is Irrational.
#16
RE: Government is Irrational.
(June 29, 2013 at 8:54 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote:
(June 29, 2013 at 8:42 pm)Koolay Wrote: If someone initiates violence upon you or your property, you are within right to use violence to stop that action and ensure safety of people and property. There is a clear difference between initiating violence and violence for defence.

Who determines this right? There is still law in this society? If there is law, who is enforcing it?

In a hypothetical scenario where someone initiates violence on someone physically weaker and successfully kills him. Who kills the initiator? Whoever kills the initiator would be doing it out of justice and not defence right? If the initiator is not attacking anyone after he kills his victim. Is that ok? Because isn't that what the government attempts to do if they jail someone who is convicted for murder? If it's not ok to kill out of justice, does that mean in this society as long as you pick on people who are weaker than you, you will thrive?

Doesn't sound very appealing.

Law is based on the non aggression principle, it is wrong to initiate force and it is wrong to commit fraud. In the act of violence, one can defend or hire a private security agency to defend people and property.

Disputes can be handled via private DROs (Dispute Resolution Organisation), such as courts and other services - eBay is a good example of this, as billions of dollars is transferred from across the world but governments never get involved in disputes as all disputes are handled by private agencies.

Murderers would be completely outcasted, from goods and services (I wouldn't want to do business with a murderer, and I doubt anyone else would). Initiating violence would be so unprofitable as word spreads around quickly, and as everyone and anyone can own firearms it wouldn't take long before the victim or bystanders kill the aggressor in defence.

(June 29, 2013 at 9:03 pm)paulpablo Wrote:
(June 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm)Koolay Wrote: Similar to God, Government breaks all of it's own rules it inflicts upon it's citizens. For example, The old testament God flooded the entire world killing all of every living thing bar 2 of every species, men, women, children were all drowned from the very same entity that said murdering is always wrong.

If you put the Government through any level of logic or Aristotelian principles it becomes illogical immediately.

Government, similiar to God, kills and inflicts harm on people in mass numbers, breaking and going above and beyond all of the proposed 'rules'.

For example, the government can put people in a cage and call it 'citizen rehabilitation', but if you do it, it is called kidnapping.

The government can kill people and it is called 'freedom fighting' or 'justice' or 'foreign policy', but if you kill people, you are simply called a murderer.

The government can steal and extort money from people and it is called 'taxation', if you do it, you are called a thief.

Not only is government irrational, but it is simply evil if you apply rational thought to it.

I like the points you made but to my knowledge having a government is the best form of organization we have, with human nature there is going to be some form of tyrannical abuses of power whatever happens, whether that's in some form of anarchy or within a government.

Didn't people always say that throughout history?

'Slavery is not perfect, but it's the best system we have.'
'Monarchy is not perfect, but it's the best system we have.'

And how wrong were they?

How do you know that initiating violence is human nature? From what I have seen, humans are the only animals to exchange resources voluntarily through use of language, trade, negotiation. No other animal has the capabilities to peacefully negotiate (**bar a few genius chimps occasionaly trading apples for bananas).

How is anarchy an abuse of power?

How is government not tyrannical or any less tyrannical? How do you measure that?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Paraselene - June 29, 2013 at 8:08 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - June 29, 2013 at 8:37 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 8:42 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by pineapplebunnybounce - June 29, 2013 at 8:54 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 9:03 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by paulpablo - June 29, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 10:17 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tartarus Sauce - June 29, 2013 at 10:34 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by simplexity - June 30, 2013 at 1:03 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 1:06 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by simplexity - June 30, 2013 at 1:30 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by pineapplebunnybounce - June 29, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 8:24 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Creed of Heresy - June 30, 2013 at 1:12 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 1:15 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Rahul - June 30, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Rahul - June 30, 2013 at 2:02 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 2:14 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Rahul - June 30, 2013 at 7:36 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by CapnAwesome - June 29, 2013 at 8:33 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by pineapplebunnybounce - June 29, 2013 at 8:35 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 8:38 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by pineapplebunnybounce - June 29, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tonus - July 1, 2013 at 1:34 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - July 1, 2013 at 1:49 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 2:04 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - July 1, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 2:36 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - July 1, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tonus - July 1, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - July 1, 2013 at 3:44 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 5:28 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Fidel_Castronaut - July 1, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by simplexity - July 1, 2013 at 5:57 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 6:04 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tonus - July 2, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Minimalist - June 29, 2013 at 8:51 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 8:53 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Minimalist - June 29, 2013 at 9:43 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 9:54 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by paulpablo - June 29, 2013 at 9:03 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tartarus Sauce - June 29, 2013 at 10:01 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by pineapplebunnybounce - June 29, 2013 at 10:22 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 29, 2013 at 10:29 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by pineapplebunnybounce - June 29, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 12:47 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Paraselene - June 29, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Creed of Heresy - June 30, 2013 at 1:17 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 1:22 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by FlyingNarwhal - June 30, 2013 at 1:29 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 11:22 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - June 30, 2013 at 1:20 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - June 30, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 8:33 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - July 1, 2013 at 9:07 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 1, 2013 at 9:22 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Rahul - July 1, 2013 at 9:25 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 9:33 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - July 1, 2013 at 10:07 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 11:00 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by DeistPaladin - July 1, 2013 at 1:07 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 1:27 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Fidel_Castronaut - July 1, 2013 at 4:03 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Red Celt - July 9, 2013 at 4:39 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Creed of Heresy - June 30, 2013 at 1:38 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by FlyingNarwhal - June 30, 2013 at 1:47 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Creed of Heresy - June 30, 2013 at 1:52 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by _xenu_ - June 30, 2013 at 5:31 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - June 30, 2013 at 1:42 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by CleanShavenJesus - June 30, 2013 at 2:27 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 2:29 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by CleanShavenJesus - June 30, 2013 at 2:33 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by CleanShavenJesus - June 30, 2013 at 2:39 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 2:42 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - June 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by simplexity - June 30, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by CleanShavenJesus - June 30, 2013 at 3:38 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - June 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Paraselene - June 30, 2013 at 2:43 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LastPoet - June 30, 2013 at 3:35 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tartarus Sauce - June 30, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - June 30, 2013 at 4:14 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - June 30, 2013 at 3:38 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by DeistPaladin - July 1, 2013 at 10:54 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 1, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 12:49 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Savannahw - July 1, 2013 at 1:29 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Savannahw - July 1, 2013 at 2:13 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by sarcasticgeographer - July 1, 2013 at 3:54 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - July 1, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Faith No More - July 2, 2013 at 2:28 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by LostLocke - July 1, 2013 at 6:13 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by sarcasticgeographer - July 1, 2013 at 6:18 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 6:25 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 1, 2013 at 6:53 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 7:12 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 1, 2013 at 7:31 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 7:32 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 1, 2013 at 7:38 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 7:51 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 1, 2013 at 9:03 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 2, 2013 at 2:23 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 2, 2013 at 7:51 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 2, 2013 at 8:02 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 2, 2013 at 9:52 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 3, 2013 at 7:19 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by The Grand Nudger - July 2, 2013 at 12:12 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by cratehorus - July 2, 2013 at 8:06 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by simplexity - July 2, 2013 at 8:17 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by The Grand Nudger - July 2, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 2, 2013 at 10:22 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by sarcasticgeographer - July 3, 2013 at 11:10 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by simplexity - July 3, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 12:13 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 4, 2013 at 3:50 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 4, 2013 at 10:36 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 4, 2013 at 2:58 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 4, 2013 at 8:11 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by simplexity - July 4, 2013 at 12:21 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - July 4, 2013 at 12:23 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by little_monkey - July 4, 2013 at 7:15 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by little_monkey - July 4, 2013 at 7:42 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 8:15 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by popeyespappy - July 4, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 4, 2013 at 10:53 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by little_monkey - July 5, 2013 at 7:10 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by _xenu_ - July 5, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 5, 2013 at 2:38 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Fidel_Castronaut - July 5, 2013 at 4:39 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Cato - July 5, 2013 at 4:47 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 5, 2013 at 7:34 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 5, 2013 at 7:57 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 6, 2013 at 6:40 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 6, 2013 at 8:50 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tonus - July 7, 2013 at 7:54 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 7, 2013 at 8:27 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Creed of Heresy - July 7, 2013 at 8:31 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Tonus - July 7, 2013 at 8:50 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 7, 2013 at 9:23 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 7, 2013 at 6:55 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by FlyingNarwhal - July 4, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Walking Void - July 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 8, 2013 at 8:19 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 8:30 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 12:42 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 2:08 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 2:51 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 3:13 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 8, 2013 at 7:08 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 7:42 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 8, 2013 at 8:01 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 8:07 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - July 8, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Walking Void - July 8, 2013 at 6:07 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - July 8, 2013 at 8:07 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 8, 2013 at 10:01 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by catfish - July 8, 2013 at 11:49 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Anomalocaris - July 8, 2013 at 8:13 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 8:39 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 8:57 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 9:20 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 10:11 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 10:22 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 8, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 8, 2013 at 10:52 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by bennyboy - July 9, 2013 at 12:19 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by MindForgedManacle - July 9, 2013 at 1:31 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 9, 2013 at 6:08 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Red Celt - July 9, 2013 at 6:25 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 9, 2013 at 6:33 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 9, 2013 at 6:35 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 9, 2013 at 6:43 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 9, 2013 at 8:04 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 9, 2013 at 8:26 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by MindForgedManacle - July 9, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Walking Void - July 10, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 10, 2013 at 2:34 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 10, 2013 at 7:41 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 10, 2013 at 8:04 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Koolay - July 10, 2013 at 8:40 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by genkaus - July 10, 2013 at 8:51 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by Red Celt - July 10, 2013 at 8:04 am
RE: Government is Irrational. - by little_monkey - July 10, 2013 at 8:13 am

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