RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating
July 1, 2013 at 9:49 pm
(This post was last modified: July 1, 2013 at 10:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 1, 2013 at 9:06 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I disagree. Not only is determinism unproven, it is unprovable. You must prove that given a particular state of the universe at time t, there is only one possible outcome for time t+1.
And? In evidence =/= proven, or provable. We could be wrong about our deterministic universe...we simply have no reason to assume that we are, and every reason to assume that we aren't.
Quote:Show me the evidence that "things could not have gone differently than they have." You cannot.Of course I can show you this evidence. Which way do things fall? Can I prove that they will always fall this way, or that "x" is how they fall this way, or that they -have- to fall this way? Nope, but that hardly matters, as I can very easily show you that they -do- fall this way.
Determinism is simple, present state x (and past state a that amounts to present state x) determines the future state y - this is how everything we can detect appears to behave. Do you have some evidence that the rest of us (as in humanity) does not? Please, share. If you're banking on the "unknown unknown", oh well, that is a position that is not in evidence.
In truth, we don't disagree in principle. I know that I cannot know that determinism holds across the board. That doesn't change the fact that determinism holds in any specific. An example of a deterministic process. Organic chemistry. Given t, t+1 has only one possible outcome, the process is incapable of yielding anything -but- t+1, we can predict t+1....and we have certainty (insomuch as it can be said to exist) that t+1 will occur, and only t+1 will occur. Gauntlet thrown and accepted. Now, if you please, show me some process that doesn't fall to determinism?
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