(December 27, 2009 at 9:03 am)theVOID Wrote: Have you any proof that believers in god are more healthy than non-believers, or are you yet again asserting an assumption?
There is no magic line to cross. The inclusion of an aim makes it possible to attain health. And as for a measure.. I think that's asking too much.
Because you know this "spiritual health" only exists as as idea and has absolutely no place in reality. Why does believing in a God who you can't be sure exists make you healthy? If it was anything else you'd call it delusion, imho that is unhealthy!
Quote: (December 27, 2009 at 9:03 am)theVOID Wrote: Quote:[quote='theVOID' pid='46991' dateline='1261880178'][quote]
It's a balance documented in the bible and achievable through faith like it describes.
It's also achievable without any gods or faith, mine comes from my wonderment of the natural world from cosmology to quantum mechanics to evolution and beyond, that beauty of reality is for me absolutely unrivalled by superstitious myth.
I have wonderment at the natural world too... but I also have the burning emotion from the consideration of God in addition to that. I can differentiate between healthy spirituality and superstition, and truth and myth.
I don't need god to feel an extreme emotional connection to non-life/non-memories, i can achieve that by looking at an output from a particle collider, or the pictures from the Hubble space telescope or just thinking about the history of the universe in general - The claim that your relationship with 'god' is greater than the connection myself or anyone else can feel to the universe it's self is an extremely arrogant and truthfully almost offensive remark.
You claim you can prove the truth of your claims now? That is a position you cannot possibly support and you know it - stick with faith, it's what your good at.
What I'm talking about is a subject in addition to those that you already consider, that in my experience, adds to my personal well being. My experience is corroborated by other Christians. I know of no other method of achieving this well being, and I cannot assume to compare my own experience with yours. What I can do is relate to you the distinction I understand.
And my experience of supreme joy regarding the natural world is shared by many who agree your 'spiritual health' is a load of fucking nonsense, there is absolutely no reason to believe it and you have completely failed to show an aspect of spiritual health that affects our physical body or mind that cannot be explained by already well-understood and far less ambiguous terms.
Quote: (December 27, 2009 at 9:03 am)theVOID Wrote: Quote: (December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote: [quote]
Psychiatry is impotent on the subject ignoring known wisdom as it does. Psychology has it's successes and that's great. I think it's realistic to say tho' that it leaves a lot of ground untouched.
Psychiatry has nothing to do with it, it's only ideally required in circumstances when the individual has a mental or emotional condition that prevents them from living a normal life - Yeah, it's not perfect but it is in the vast majority of cases better than nothing, and it's still a developing health science so the results now don't speak of it's potential in any way. People have tried praying etc instead and it may work to an extent, but i would be willing to bet that it would be no more helpful than a good psychologist.
Praying is hardly relevant I think. What we're talking about is a logical perspective. Personally I wouldn't call say a very bleak outlook on life rational.
Bleak outlook on life? I'm fully satisfied with the life i have, i don't need to hope for another one or imagine a sky-daddy to comfort me in this one - that to me is a more bleak outlook.
