RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating
July 10, 2013 at 7:50 am
(This post was last modified: July 10, 2013 at 8:14 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 9, 2013 at 7:20 pm)bennyboy Wrote: To prove determinism, you have to show clearly that for any given state of the universe at a time t, you couldn't possibly have had a different outcome at time t+1. This is impossible for obvious reasons.
Except when it isn't impossible eh, like when water auto levels or when a growth inhibitor is applied to synthase, or when a round is fired in a test chamber. Again, setting a requirement for complete knowledge is unreasonable. Especially considering that what knowledge we have is sufficient for establishing deterministic behavior.
"To know anything you must know everything" seems to be the argument, perhaps unintentionally, idk. I doubt you have any beef with the deterministic behavior above, so the impasse likely only exists at certain points, which is why I keep mentioning the granting of special passes. I mean, I;d like to be able to give such a pass myself, to say "Sure, the water levels, organic chemistry ticks like a clock, rounds downrange go where we send them, the rock rolls in a certain direction - but-...the "mind", whatever it is, is different, special, not subject to" - the trouble is that the requirements for evidence of deterministic behavior have been met in the case of the "mind" or it's effects - regardless of what that "mind" is or how it achieves those effects. IOW, if I have a premise or assertion that states that the mind appears to behave in a deterministic manner (which is of course included in a claim such as "the known universe appears to behave in a deterministic manner", in toto)- I'll be able to assign a measure of truth the the assertion, there's at least some way to decide how sound such a statement is/might be. We might both be able to form a valid argument for either position - but how might you measure your hypothetical assertions, relative to mine? Whose argument has more power as a way to determine the truth rather than an exersize in craft?
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