Determinism Is Self Defeating

[The Grand Nudger]

The word "fate" just means that something is pre-determined. So these are interchangeable terms. And determinism is the foundation of science. Deny determinism, you deny science.

pre-determiniation or fatalism is similarly non-deterministic. Good shit, eh? I wouldn't go so far as to say that denying determinism denies science though. That the world is knowable, that knowledge can be had - would more aptly, be the foundation of science.

On a side note, your analogy, A "fated" life holds that you will die in a submarine, doesn't hold water... sorry, couldn't help with the pun...you can only determine an event if you know all the causes. It just happens that we simple mortals don't know all the causes that go into determining certain events.

That may be the case, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes we can assign certainty to a prediction, however it happens, the universe appears to behave in a deterministic manner in that instance. I don't think that fated lives in fated universes hold water either. Because I am not aware of any process or law or behavior applicable to ourselves that leaves all, any, most or many circumstances aside when tallying an outcome.

As I've mentioned to others, whether or not we have the knowledge required is ancillary to whether or not such a prediction is possible. The latter is evidence of determinism, the former would be evidence of the practical accuracy of our models and ability to make measurements. Both together is tremendously powerful evidence for both - and this is what we see when rocks roll downhill, when water autolevels, when growth inhibitors are applied to synth, etc.