Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 19, 2025, 2:20 pm
Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Determinism Is Self Defeating

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
Determinism Is Self Defeating
little_monkey Offline
Member
***
Religious Views: none
Posts: 815
Threads: 66
Joined: October 8, 2010
Reputation: 11
#150
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating
July 14, 2013 at 3:08 pm
(July 14, 2013 at 1:32 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(July 14, 2013 at 12:08 pm)little_monkey Wrote: If the universe wouldn't be deterministic, then it would contain lots of magic as it would not be governed by any laws, and such universe would not be understood under scientific scrutiny.
It boggles the mind as to how we might gain knowledge of such a universe using a prediction based system - yes.

Quote:Whether you want to admit or not, but the moment you do science you've already conceeded that it is deterministic. Determinism is a presupposition to any scientific enquiry. It's not something you can prove but it is a starting hypothesis. Scientific theories, scientific models are all based on the notion that the universe is ruled by laws, and therefore it is deterministic. If we know the initial conditions and all the relevant forces, we know exactly how the universe will behave in the future. All scientists have acted under that notion. That's why I said: deny determinism and you deny science.
It is difficult to imagine how science "does work" in a non-deterministic universe - yes.

I know this is highly hypothetical, but if I could send you back 10 years and erase all your memory in those 10 years, do you believe you would make different choices and live a different life?

Personally I don't. In exactly the same circumstances, we would make exactly the same choices.
MY BOOKS: https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Palazzo/e/B07L44H19P

Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Determinism Is Self Defeating

Messages In This Thread
Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 1, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 1, 2013 at 9:06 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Silver - July 4, 2013 at 7:35 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by MikeTheInfidel - July 9, 2013 at 2:34 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 9, 2013 at 6:48 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 2, 2013 at 7:04 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 2, 2013 at 6:08 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Whateverist - July 3, 2013 at 9:32 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 2, 2013 at 9:30 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 3, 2013 at 9:25 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 3, 2013 at 9:49 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 4, 2013 at 7:15 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 4, 2013 at 7:46 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 4, 2013 at 10:19 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 5, 2013 at 5:04 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 5, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 5, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 5, 2013 at 10:55 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 5, 2013 at 11:35 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Angrboda - July 7, 2013 at 2:21 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 7, 2013 at 8:59 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Angrboda - July 7, 2013 at 1:34 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 8, 2013 at 8:17 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by paulpablo - July 3, 2013 at 11:47 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by genkaus - July 4, 2013 at 2:53 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 9:32 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by paulpablo - July 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by genkaus - July 4, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 4, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 6:12 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 4, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 6:46 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 4, 2013 at 6:58 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 7:01 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 4, 2013 at 7:02 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 7:12 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by simplexity - July 4, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by simplexity - July 4, 2013 at 7:03 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 4, 2013 at 7:32 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Angrboda - July 5, 2013 at 1:53 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 5, 2013 at 3:42 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Angrboda - July 5, 2013 at 5:05 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by simplexity - July 4, 2013 at 6:52 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 6:58 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by simplexity - July 4, 2013 at 7:00 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by CapnAwesome - July 4, 2013 at 7:14 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 7:18 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by simplexity - July 4, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by genkaus - July 5, 2013 at 2:26 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 5, 2013 at 3:24 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 5, 2013 at 7:28 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 5, 2013 at 8:18 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by paulpablo - July 5, 2013 at 8:58 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 5, 2013 at 1:02 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 5, 2013 at 1:52 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by paulpablo - July 5, 2013 at 8:09 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Ryantology - July 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Inigo - July 4, 2013 at 7:24 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 4, 2013 at 7:26 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Inigo - July 4, 2013 at 7:34 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Inigo - July 4, 2013 at 7:37 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 5, 2013 at 3:51 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 5, 2013 at 7:14 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by LastPoet - July 5, 2013 at 7:42 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 6, 2013 at 7:32 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 6, 2013 at 10:46 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 6, 2013 at 7:40 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Ryantology - July 7, 2013 at 3:10 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 9, 2013 at 6:10 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 9, 2013 at 6:38 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 9, 2013 at 6:50 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 9, 2013 at 6:56 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 9, 2013 at 8:03 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 9, 2013 at 6:20 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by genkaus - July 9, 2013 at 6:26 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 9, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by ManMachine - July 9, 2013 at 11:52 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 11, 2013 at 7:31 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 7:39 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 11, 2013 at 7:51 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 8:04 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 11, 2013 at 8:35 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 8:40 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 11, 2013 at 8:37 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 11, 2013 at 11:16 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 9, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 9, 2013 at 7:20 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 10, 2013 at 6:39 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 10, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 10, 2013 at 8:23 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 11, 2013 at 7:14 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 10, 2013 at 8:51 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 10, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 11, 2013 at 8:43 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 8:49 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 11, 2013 at 8:57 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 9:01 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2013 at 9:01 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 11, 2013 at 9:06 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 9:11 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 11, 2013 at 9:32 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2013 at 9:14 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2013 at 9:39 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 9:42 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 13, 2013 at 2:14 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 13, 2013 at 10:28 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 13, 2013 at 7:50 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 13, 2013 at 8:16 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Angrboda - July 11, 2013 at 1:25 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 11, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 12, 2013 at 6:04 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 11, 2013 at 9:32 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 9:43 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 11, 2013 at 9:47 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by MindForgedManacle - July 11, 2013 at 10:06 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Koolay - July 12, 2013 at 9:48 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 12, 2013 at 10:00 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 12, 2013 at 10:27 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by genkaus - July 12, 2013 at 10:44 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 12, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 12, 2013 at 10:17 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 13, 2013 at 7:19 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by max-greece - July 13, 2013 at 4:35 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 13, 2013 at 8:27 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 13, 2013 at 9:30 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 13, 2013 at 10:10 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 14, 2013 at 10:12 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 14, 2013 at 2:35 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 14, 2013 at 2:39 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 14, 2013 at 5:18 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 14, 2013 at 5:34 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 14, 2013 at 1:54 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by KichigaiNeko - July 14, 2013 at 5:35 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 14, 2013 at 8:06 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 14, 2013 at 9:17 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 14, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 14, 2013 at 11:28 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 14, 2013 at 12:08 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 14, 2013 at 4:19 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 14, 2013 at 4:34 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 14, 2013 at 4:35 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 14, 2013 at 1:32 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 14, 2013 at 3:08 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 14, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 14, 2013 at 4:23 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 14, 2013 at 9:12 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 15, 2013 at 8:56 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 15, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 15, 2013 at 8:59 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 14, 2013 at 9:20 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Zen Badger - July 15, 2013 at 7:04 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2013 at 8:14 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 15, 2013 at 5:39 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2013 at 8:15 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Walking Void - July 16, 2013 at 9:41 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 17, 2013 at 8:16 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Walking Void - July 17, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 17, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 18, 2013 at 11:03 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 18, 2013 at 7:47 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 19, 2013 at 7:55 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Walking Void - July 18, 2013 at 3:17 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2013 at 8:57 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 18, 2013 at 10:18 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 19, 2013 at 7:55 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 19, 2013 at 7:59 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 19, 2013 at 8:39 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 19, 2013 at 8:08 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 19, 2013 at 2:45 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 19, 2013 at 3:50 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 19, 2013 at 8:25 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 20, 2013 at 5:11 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 22, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by pocaracas - July 19, 2013 at 11:24 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Walking Void - July 19, 2013 at 11:31 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2013 at 8:02 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 20, 2013 at 7:01 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 21, 2013 at 2:49 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 21, 2013 at 9:50 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 21, 2013 at 10:52 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 21, 2013 at 12:17 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 21, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Angrboda - July 21, 2013 at 5:42 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 21, 2013 at 7:41 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 22, 2013 at 7:36 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 22, 2013 at 10:36 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 23, 2013 at 9:39 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 22, 2013 at 12:54 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 22, 2013 at 9:52 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Silver - July 22, 2013 at 10:04 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Red Celt - July 22, 2013 at 11:04 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 23, 2013 at 9:00 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 23, 2013 at 8:13 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 24, 2013 at 9:12 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 23, 2013 at 9:24 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 24, 2013 at 12:06 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by Angrboda - July 24, 2013 at 2:30 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 24, 2013 at 3:38 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 24, 2013 at 8:45 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 24, 2013 at 9:29 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 24, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 24, 2013 at 9:55 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 24, 2013 at 7:01 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 24, 2013 at 7:59 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 24, 2013 at 9:21 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by little_monkey - July 25, 2013 at 10:13 am
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by bennyboy - July 25, 2013 at 4:23 pm
RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2013 at 8:58 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Bug Self-Rejection, Self-Sacrifice, Self-Denial VS Egoism, Earthly Pleasures, Hedonism AB Caro 45 6852 April 4, 2025 at 12:31 am
Last Post: Goosebump
  Determinism vs Education Silver 17 2366 October 14, 2021 at 8:10 pm
Last Post: Ranjr
  Is Moral Responsibility Compatible With Determinism? mcc1789 44 8555 June 11, 2019 at 1:34 pm
Last Post: SenseMaker007
  Hybrid theory between freewill and determinism Won2blv 18 5639 July 26, 2017 at 10:57 am
Last Post: Rev. Rye
  Is the idea of self a coherent concept? bennyboy 5 1596 January 1, 2017 at 10:21 am
Last Post: Angrboda
  Is the self all that can be known to exist? Excited Penguin 132 24255 December 15, 2016 at 7:32 pm
Last Post: Tonus
  The Definitive Post On The Free Will v. Determinism Debate BrianSoddingBoru4 17 4376 September 3, 2016 at 11:20 pm
Last Post: Arkilogue
  Self-Validating Empirical Epistemology? Ignorant 69 13460 May 26, 2016 at 7:49 pm
Last Post: Ben Davis
  Does a "True Self" Exist? Salacious B. Crumb 68 18724 July 17, 2015 at 6:11 am
Last Post: chasbanner
  Necessary First Principles, Self-Evident Truths Mudhammam 4 2093 July 10, 2015 at 9:48 pm
Last Post: Pyrrho



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)