RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating
July 22, 2013 at 7:36 am
(This post was last modified: July 22, 2013 at 7:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 21, 2013 at 4:37 pm)bennyboy Wrote: "Fixed" is "set in stone," and is not "open.""given t".
Quote:Not open."completely determined by prior states".
Quote:"completely determine," as in don't allow any "openness" with regard to any aspect of the future."determined by preceding events" and "variables".
Quote:Oh wow, this looks like historically, "determinism" is just "predeterminism" with the suffix chopped off.I'd have chopped it as well, the prefix causes problems with the position which are difficult to reconcile with what we understand of causation.
Again, I think that having a discussion about this we ought not to short change the different positions available, or lump them all together as though they were one and the same - otherwise it's difficult to see how we could reach a powerful or compelling conclusion. If I was a predeterminist I'd be pissed if someone tried to argue against determinism or fatalism as though they were arguing against my position. I'd expect at least enough respect for the disagreement to have the differences between these positions appreciated. -On my end- If, for example, I said that the universe appears to behave in a manner such that human beings could predetermine future events - I could not argue for fatalism (because we clearly are capable of having an effect within the context of the claim) or determinism (because I have abrogated the role of cause and invoked a power all itself - the power of predetermination to be an events "cause" rather than precending events or variables) from that claim. Understand?
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