With more hate?
Hey EvF. Good to hear from you.

We might just plum think opposed to one another on this one. I think that beliefs are real, and are a factor in our decision making process. I do not however think they are "to blame" for crimes, or for honours. To blame something is to assign it some level of responsibility for an action. The belief someone holds can affect them, but not be held responsible. No matter how much I want it to, if I shoot someone, it is me and only me that did that. No matter how crazy I was at the time, in a religious sense. There is no way to show that the bible pulled the trigger, and in fact easy usually to show that it was my hand, for which I was responsible for at the time.
I do admit and agree that it is a factor. Did this person think they could kill someone, and for whatever reason it was justifiable? That is interesting, and valid, but not responsible.
I feel for people that have been tricked and coerced into doing bad things, but unfortunately the blame and punishment rest squarely on their shoulders. If not just for committing a crime, for failing our shared responsibility to ourselves and each other. The duty of making the right choices.
So I disagree, and would say that a person is the only thing that can be blamed, as only a person exhibits the ability to be responsible, and beliefs do not. Not until interpreted by a human, and then suddenly it is in our corner, and can be good, bad, or kinda mundane and boring.
Thanks,
-Pip
Quote:As someone who read the holy Qu'ran and still clutches his head whenever Muslims talk about the "science" of the Qu'ran, submission to Allah and their behaviors is expected to be what your life is about.I don't discount your knowledge of Islam, I read an English Quran as well, and agree that it was dry for a divine scripture. And yes, there is a lot of anger and room for hatred, but I am not trying to say that there arne't flaws with their beliefs. I cast scorn on anything Abrehemic, as those three brother religions have cause some trouble in history (and nowadays). My point is that you can't blame Islam or the Quran for this specific action that the man did, it isn't realistic. I will expound more.
Quote:Were the vigilant exhortations of the masses whipped up by their imams to behead the Danish cartoonist's misunderstood? How about the many people who died in the frenzy? Huh?That is also a long inter-playing string of human choices, decisions and consequences. To blame the Quran or the entirety of the belief structure is disingenuous. I believe that it played a kind of a part in making possible the conceptions, and as a framework to make decisions in. Certainly though, there should be accountability to any person who chooses to do anything bad (against the law, violent, coercive of others) regardless of their excuses for whatever action. To blame the entire religion is to ignore the human reality of the situations, and fall into the same hole they are in. Hatred, division and disillusion.
Hey EvF. Good to hear from you.
Quote:I do not believe in Free WillThis might be a sidetrack, but I have to point out that it is funny to hear an agnostic/atheist person as yourself say that. Not that you don't likely have a strong foundation for your belief, but that it is a concept usually reserved for the other side. I would have to disagree. It is deemed by fate that we should have free will...

We might just plum think opposed to one another on this one. I think that beliefs are real, and are a factor in our decision making process. I do not however think they are "to blame" for crimes, or for honours. To blame something is to assign it some level of responsibility for an action. The belief someone holds can affect them, but not be held responsible. No matter how much I want it to, if I shoot someone, it is me and only me that did that. No matter how crazy I was at the time, in a religious sense. There is no way to show that the bible pulled the trigger, and in fact easy usually to show that it was my hand, for which I was responsible for at the time.
I do admit and agree that it is a factor. Did this person think they could kill someone, and for whatever reason it was justifiable? That is interesting, and valid, but not responsible.
I feel for people that have been tricked and coerced into doing bad things, but unfortunately the blame and punishment rest squarely on their shoulders. If not just for committing a crime, for failing our shared responsibility to ourselves and each other. The duty of making the right choices.
So I disagree, and would say that a person is the only thing that can be blamed, as only a person exhibits the ability to be responsible, and beliefs do not. Not until interpreted by a human, and then suddenly it is in our corner, and can be good, bad, or kinda mundane and boring.
Thanks,
-Pip


